Kansas Crimson

Soklous wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:04 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 pm

Soklous wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:58 pm Vick went off on Self “on the court” at Texas. He then went off on the team “on the court” against Kstate. He’s fucked up every part of the Self reinstatement agreement. Those are things fans have directly seen, and those are the things you telling posters we don’t know and can’t discuss now. And ultimately what you are calling people vulgar names over.

Dotson also had heated words with Self during the KSU loss. Russell Robinson is a beloved former player who famously almost fought Self in a practice.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it's really easy to look at Vick or Greene and be like "I knew it all along" when they finally get shown the door.

In pdub's defense there's always been a vocal contingent of KU fan's who have seemed to actively root against Vick. I'm not sure why. pdub may have been premature with calling people out for saying I told you so...but it wasn't without a reason.

This isn’t hindsight. This isn’t a freshmen issue. This is very simple. Vick has been kicked out of KU. He begged to be back, and coach would not allow unless he signed a behavior and expectations contract. We are now pretending that this never happened, and you are blaming Freshmen, or Robin and the Green Lantern, as equal blame. We’re all going to pretend that is the reality? The GIANT writing on the wall was never there? Everyone is equal?

We are then supposed to take consideration of life stressers and external factors when speaking of Vick, but not at all when speaking to the member of this community?

Strange place.

Vick has been kicked out of KU?

I'm not sure what you're railing against nor do I understand the superhero references?

I'm saying it's weird that there were some, not you, and in fact it's a small but vocal minority who seemed to take great pride in the fact that an athletic young man on the KU basketball team made some big mistakes and may not have made the most of a pretty amazing opportunity.

This is not an effort to defend Vick or make excuses for him, just saying I understand where pdub is coming from. Seems to me that Vick being reinstated and signing a contract were reasons to root for him not against him.

I'm pretty disappointed that it didn't work out letting him back on the team. It got off to one helluva start.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 pmthere's always been a vocal contingent of KU fan's who have seemed to actively root against Vick. I'm not sure why.

Not sure why? He's either been suspended or benched in each of the last 3 seasons. That's not going to be anyone's fan favorite.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:11 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 pmthere's always been a vocal contingent of KU fan's who have seemed to actively root against Vick. I'm not sure why.

Not sure why? He's either been suspended or benched in each of the last 3 seasons. That's not going to be anyone's fan favorite.

I think there's a pretty large and meaningful difference between not liking a KU player, and wanting to see a KU player fail.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:13 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:11 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 pmthere's always been a vocal contingent of KU fan's who have seemed to actively root against Vick. I'm not sure why.

Not sure why? He's either been suspended or benched in each of the last 3 seasons. That's not going to be anyone's fan favorite.

I think there's a pretty large and meaningful difference between not liking a KU player, and wanting to see a KU player fail.

I agree. I also think there is a difference between wanting someone to fail and just not being surprised when it happens. Vick surprised the hell out of me during the non-con and I said it was pretty damn big of him to make that kind of response after the tumultuous summer. It turned out that it sure feels like the same story, with this year's 2nd half slide being the most dramatic of them all.

What Phd said.
I don't particularly like Lightfoot or KJ Lawson.
I'll ask why they are playing at a certain moment if they aren't playing well. Or will prefer another player to play instead of them if they aren't effective on the court.

But I want them to score 35 points a game, every game, and don't itch at the opportunity to say something like, 'same as it ever was.'

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:18 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:13 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:11 pm

Not sure why? He's either been suspended or benched in each of the last 3 seasons. That's not going to be anyone's fan favorite.

I think there's a pretty large and meaningful difference between not liking a KU player, and wanting to see a KU player fail.

I agree. I also think there is a difference between wanting someone to fail and just not being surprised when it happens. Vick surprised the hell out of me during the non-con and I said it was pretty damn big of him to make that kind of response after the tumultuous summer. It turned out that it sure feels like the same story, with this year's 2nd half slide being the most dramatic of them all.

I agree with that.

I'm not surprised by the outcome either. Though, to be fair, if it had worked out all season that wouldn't have surprised me either. It's hard to understand why he wouldn't have been all in on doing things the right way after seeing the outcome of his Jr. year. But it's also hard for people to change.

I, like pdub, was anticipating a bunch a lot of negative comments directed toward Vick. That they didn't happen says a lot about KU fans, at least on this board. But that anticipation was based on the fact the way many acted toward Vick in the offseason, and there seemed to be some who crossed way beyond just not liking vick.

So, I won't defend that asshole pdub, but I get where he was coming from.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:10 pm

Soklous wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:04 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 pm

Dotson also had heated words with Self during the KSU loss. Russell Robinson is a beloved former player who famously almost fought Self in a practice.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it's really easy to look at Vick or Greene and be like "I knew it all along" when they finally get shown the door.

In pdub's defense there's always been a vocal contingent of KU fan's who have seemed to actively root against Vick. I'm not sure why. pdub may have been premature with calling people out for saying I told you so...but it wasn't without a reason.

This isn’t hindsight. This isn’t a freshmen issue. This is very simple. Vick has been kicked out of KU. He begged to be back, and coach would not allow unless he signed a behavior and expectations contract. We are now pretending that this never happened, and you are blaming Freshmen, or Robin and the Green Lantern, as equal blame. We’re all going to pretend that is the reality? The GIANT writing on the wall was never there? Everyone is equal?

We are then supposed to take consideration of life stressers and external factors when speaking of Vick, but not at all when speaking to the member of this community?

Strange place.

Vick has been kicked out of KU?

I'm not sure what you're railing against nor do I understand the superhero references?

I'm saying it's weird that there were some, not you, and in fact it's a small but vocal minority who seemed to take great pride in the fact that an athletic young man on the KU basketball team made some big mistakes and may not have made the most of a pretty amazing opportunity.

This is not an effort to defend Vick or make excuses for him, just saying I understand where pdub is coming from. Seems to me that Vick being reinstated and signing a contract were reasons to root for him not against him.

I'm pretty disappointed that it didn't work out letting him back on the team. It got off to one helluva start.

I pointed out Vick’s behavior detrimental to the team during Tuesday’s showing. Pwhitt told me I was wrong, and told me that I’m confused, and blaming Mr Freeze for making Batman a bad movie. So when I mentioned Arnold, it wasn’t a shot at Vick, it was that I don’t need Roger Ebert telling me what I’ve seen for 4 years up close. Likewise, CnB didn’t do anything but stick up for SVI, whose reputation was being destroyed by this unneeded defense. All this day is about, is Pwhitt being let down after coming to the rescue.

I’ve reached out to both Vick and his mother personally. Discussing the KU team and wishing best for someone or the best for the program is not exclusive to each other.

Soklous wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:25 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:10 pm

Soklous wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:04 pm


This isn’t hindsight. This isn’t a freshmen issue. This is very simple. Vick has been kicked out of KU. He begged to be back, and coach would not allow unless he signed a behavior and expectations contract. We are now pretending that this never happened, and you are blaming Freshmen, or Robin and the Green Lantern, as equal blame. We’re all going to pretend that is the reality? The GIANT writing on the wall was never there? Everyone is equal?

We are then supposed to take consideration of life stressers and external factors when speaking of Vick, but not at all when speaking to the member of this community?

Strange place.

Vick has been kicked out of KU?

I'm not sure what you're railing against nor do I understand the superhero references?

I'm saying it's weird that there were some, not you, and in fact it's a small but vocal minority who seemed to take great pride in the fact that an athletic young man on the KU basketball team made some big mistakes and may not have made the most of a pretty amazing opportunity.

This is not an effort to defend Vick or make excuses for him, just saying I understand where pdub is coming from. Seems to me that Vick being reinstated and signing a contract were reasons to root for him not against him.

I'm pretty disappointed that it didn't work out letting him back on the team. It got off to one helluva start.

I pointed out Vick’s behavior detrimental to the team during Tuesday’s showing. Pwhitt told me I was wrong, and told me that I’m confused, and blaming Mr Freeze for making Batman a bad movie. So when I mentioned Arnold, it wasn’t a shot at Vick, it was that I don’t need Roger Ebert telling me what I’ve seen for 4 years up close. Likewise, CnB didn’t do anything but stick up for SVI, whose reputation was being destroyed by this unneeded defense. All this day is about, is Pwhitt being let down after coming to the rescue.

I’ve reached out to both Vick and his mother personally. Discussing the KU team and wishing best for someone or the best for the program is not exclusive to each other.

Well, I'm not gonna speak for pdub or go back through everything that was posted.

But, there was more blame to go around than just Vick. If we're talking about on court performance, Vick wasn't the only guy who stunk on Tuesday night.

But Vick was the only one blaming his teammates and causing a scene to get benched. I think that’s the huge divide on this subject. Those who understand the subtle dynamics of a team and its chemistry, and those who point out stats. They both fall under “on court”. And neither should be off limits to fan discussions.

IMO, there is way too much talk of lacking senior leadership on this board. Ellis hated talk of being a leader. No reason at all in my head that Vick has to be the de facto leader.

I’d rather throw Coach Self under the bus than a player. He is a mature adult and gets paid million$ a year and has a staff to make sure stuff like this doesn’t happen. He has admitted on air that this has been his worst job coaching. Maybe his mind is on the FBI and NCAA too much.
I know losing Dok and Silva has been a very tough challenge, but I’m not sure that makes it so difficult for newbies to take care of the ball and for everyone to make free throws. You notice Snacks getting up off the bench and coaching more now during games. Makes me wonder if the atmosphere has changed.

I mean, the past few seasons can't have been fun for Bill at all.

I don't think it's hard to see why Bill cracked in his postgame speech after the duke game.

Hawklin, I love your contributions here, but dude, you gotta be less sensitive. Pdub brought legitimate arguments backed by logic and stats given what outsider fans know, and repeated a common coloquialism.

The way Vick played Tuesday in the first half, as I said in the game thread while it was going on, was bizarre and like nothing I've ever seen. But Kansas fans im general jump on Vick like no player I have ever seen.

Stats dont equal impact on the game. Particularly in the effor, leadership, mental fortitude and refuse to lose mentality categories. I think thats hawklins point. And one i think is easy to see unless you burybyour b.c. head in the + - type stats and numbers which can manipulated to say anything you want.

Before anyone says it no this is not a play hard chart type analysis.

We shall see how the team responds to the latest challenge. I expect a decent outing.

Mjl wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:06 pm Hawklin, I love your contributions here, but dude, you gotta be less sensitive. Pdub brought legitimate arguments backed by logic and stats given what outsider fans know, and repeated a common coloquialism.

The way Vick played Tuesday in the first half, as I said in the game thread while it was going on, was bizarre and like nothing I've ever seen. But Kansas fans im general jump on Vick like no player I have ever seen.

Link?

Dude, no one has been unfair to Vick. To pretend I’m the sensitive one in this discussion is why this community has always been frustrating.

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:30 pm Stats dont equal impact on the game. Particularly in the effor, leadership, mental fortitude and refuse to lose mentality categories. I think thats hawklins point. And one i think is easy to see unless you burybyour b.c. head in the + - type stats and numbers which can manipulated to say anything you want.

Yet no one will tell you he is anything positive in this important role. No one will agree it’s good for the team. But if you say it’s not good... real asshole dick. We already knew.

I miss frank and devonte.

Soklous wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:33 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:06 pm Hawklin, I love your contributions here, but dude, you gotta be less sensitive. Pdub brought legitimate arguments backed by logic and stats given what outsider fans know, and repeated a common coloquialism.

The way Vick played Tuesday in the first half, as I said in the game thread while it was going on, was bizarre and like nothing I've ever seen. But Kansas fans im general jump on Vick like no player I have ever seen.

Link?

Dude, no one has been unfair to Vick. To pretend I’m the sensitive one in this discussion is why this community has always been frustrating.

couldn’t agree more

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:13 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:11 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 pmthere's always been a vocal contingent of KU fan's who have seemed to actively root against Vick. I'm not sure why.

Not sure why? He's either been suspended or benched in each of the last 3 seasons. That's not going to be anyone's fan favorite.

I think there's a pretty large and meaningful difference between not liking a KU player, and wanting to see a KU player fail.

And a pretty large and meaningful difference between wanting to see a KU player fail and just being frustrated that anyone, coaches included, actually believed it would end in any other manner. We all hoped this wasn't how this was going to go but no one is actually genuinely surprised by how it has gone, are they?