Kansas Crimson

I think Robert Docking would make a fine candidate.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:18 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:00 am

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:53 am

I get that. I guess I have enough idealist left in me that I find it hard to imagine Washington, Jefferson, or Lincoln thinking of themselves that way. Seems like there still might be some good people out there somewhere.

I think, to a (clearly very significant) degree, your dispiritedness is evidence of the success of Russia's and the far right's two-step campaign to (1) blow Hunter's problems WAY out of proportion, and (2) attach - without meaningful evidence - Joe Biden to Hunter's problems.

Biden - good man or bad man - is cognitively compromised, and the economic fruits of his presidency, which are the only outcomes I really care about, are dreadful.

^^^

Dammit, Joe!

If only the economy wasn't so strong, Americans would spend less money, businesses would do worse and some would close, more people would lose their jobs and collect unemployment, and interest rates would go down.

But, because the economy continues to hum along so strongly, according to Stephanie Link, chief investment strategist and portfolio manager at Hightower this morning on CNBC, we can expect interest rates to remain higher for longer. She based this on the strength of last week's numbers vis-a-vis industrial production, retail sales, initial jobless claims, and final demand, all of which are better.

It's too much winning, Mr. President!

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:28 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:18 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:00 am

I think, to a (clearly very significant) degree, your dispiritedness is evidence of the success of Russia's and the far right's two-step campaign to (1) blow Hunter's problems WAY out of proportion, and (2) attach - without meaningful evidence - Joe Biden to Hunter's problems.

Biden - good man or bad man - is cognitively compromised, and the economic fruits of his presidency, which are the only outcomes I really care about, are dreadful.

Ok. But we're having two, or maybe even three, conversations at once here I guess. I was responding to what appeared to be character concerns about Biden (as opposed to performance concerns or cognitive concerns).

In my opinion - without regard for whether one considers the "economic fruits of his presidency" to be dreadful or stellar or anything in between, and without regard for whether one considers Biden cognitively unfit or sharp-as-a-tack or anything in between - Biden is quite high character.

And, again in my opinion, assertions to the contrary are (and probably the conflation referenced above is) pretty obviously the result (the fruits?) of Russian/far-right disinformation.

I will conceded that I know nothing about Joe Biden the person. It seems like he has been through a lot, with his wife and daughter dying in the car accident and his older son dying of cancer. I would never make light of that. I'm not sure, however, that one can rise to that level of power without selling their soul completely. Just my opinion.

Shirley wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:37 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:18 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:00 am

I think, to a (clearly very significant) degree, your dispiritedness is evidence of the success of Russia's and the far right's two-step campaign to (1) blow Hunter's problems WAY out of proportion, and (2) attach - without meaningful evidence - Joe Biden to Hunter's problems.

Biden - good man or bad man - is cognitively compromised, and the economic fruits of his presidency, which are the only outcomes I really care about, are dreadful.

^^^

Dammit, Joe!

If only the economy wasn't so strong, Americans would spend less money, businesses would do worse and some would close, more people would lose their jobs and collect unemployment, and interest rates would go down.

But, because the economy continues to hum along so strongly, according to Stephanie Link, chief investment strategist and portfolio manager at Hightower this morning on CNBC, we can expect interest rates to remain higher for longer. She based this on the strength of last week's numbers vis-a-vis industrial production, retail sales, initial jobless claims, and final demand, all of which are better.

It's too much winning, Mr. President!

It's only "strong" when you use economic numbers that conveniently omit energy and food price indexes. As Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

the American public continues to show that it is more than willing to pay exorbitant fuel prices

reduce the demand and gas prices will drop (followed by so very many other prices tied to transport costs)

that’s some pretty basic supply/demand stuff

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:18 pm

Shirley wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:37 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:18 pm

Biden - good man or bad man - is cognitively compromised, and the economic fruits of his presidency, which are the only outcomes I really care about, are dreadful.

^^^

Dammit, Joe!

If only the economy wasn't so strong, Americans would spend less money, businesses would do worse and some would close, more people would lose their jobs and collect unemployment, and interest rates would go down.

But, because the economy continues to hum along so strongly, according to Stephanie Link, chief investment strategist and portfolio manager at Hightower this morning on CNBC, we can expect interest rates to remain higher for longer. She based this on the strength of last week's numbers vis-a-vis industrial production, retail sales, initial jobless claims, and final demand, all of which are better.

It's too much winning, Mr. President!

It's only "strong" when you use economic numbers that conveniently omit energy and food price indexes. As Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I'm old enough to remember when people who considered themselves "conservative" preached "personal responsibility" and didn't spend their time blaming the world and someone else for their personal economic situation.

You cannot spell conservative without first spelling CONS. They have conned the masses into believing that they are for personal responsibility, family values, fiscal restraint and law and order. The Trump years have allowed them to stop pretending. Trump himself is Exhibit A.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:33 pm the American public continues to show that it is more than willing to pay exorbitant fuel prices

reduce the demand and gas prices will drop (followed by so very many other prices tied to transport costs)

that’s some pretty basic supply/demand stuff

Today In: But, Biden!

According to the law of supply and demand, it makes perfect sense to expect that cutting demand should increase the supply and the result would be the price of gasoline would go down. (And relatively speaking, it likely would, a little/some.)

By that same logic, increasing the supply should result in lower gas prices. If only it were so...

Although U.S. domestic oil production more than doubled since 2008, the price of oil continues to be set on a global market, which is vulnerable to the disruption of foreign petrostate dictators. After Russia invaded Ukraine the average price of a gallon of gasoline jumped 50 cents in just two weeks.

Sept. 5, 2023: Oil prices surge after Saudi Arabia and Russia extend production cuts

Oil prices hit a new high for the year so far after Saudi Arabia and Russia — the world’s biggest crude exporters — said they would extend output cuts by at least another three months.

Brent crude, the global benchmark, gained 1.8% to trade above $90 a barrel, while West Texas Intermediate (WTI), the US benchmark, rose by a similar margin to $87 a barrel.

The moves by Saudi Arabia and Russia reinforce efforts by the alliance known as OPEC+ — which includes members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries and other producers — to support oil prices by agreeing to deep and prolonged production cuts.

An official source from the Saudi Ministry of Energy told state-run news agency SPA that the kingdom would extend its production cut of 1 million barrels per day until the end of December. The decision would be “reviewed monthly to consider deepening the cut or increasing production,” the source added.

The Saudi production cut — which has been in place since July — is the biggest in years and has depressed the kingdom’s output to nine million barrels per day. The cut is in addition to a reduction previously announced by Riyadh in April 2023, which extends until the end of December 2024.

[...]

Shirley wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:36 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:18 pm

Shirley wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:37 pm

^^^

Dammit, Joe!

If only the economy wasn't so strong, Americans would spend less money, businesses would do worse and some would close, more people would lose their jobs and collect unemployment, and interest rates would go down.

But, because the economy continues to hum along so strongly, according to Stephanie Link, chief investment strategist and portfolio manager at Hightower this morning on CNBC, we can expect interest rates to remain higher for longer. She based this on the strength of last week's numbers vis-a-vis industrial production, retail sales, initial jobless claims, and final demand, all of which are better.

It's too much winning, Mr. President!

It's only "strong" when you use economic numbers that conveniently omit energy and food price indexes. As Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I'm old enough to remember when people who considered themselves "conservative" preached "personal responsibility" and didn't spend their time blaming the world and someone else for their personal economic situation.

So, you’re conceding that using core inflation numbers and trying to play them off to the public as real inflation numbers is deceptive, then. Thanks. I agree.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:33 pm the American public continues to show that it is more than willing to pay exorbitant fuel prices

reduce the demand and gas prices will drop (followed by so very many other prices tied to transport costs)

that’s some pretty basic supply/demand stuff

And yet people have to drive to and from work and school. Ingrates.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:05 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:33 pm the American public continues to show that it is more than willing to pay exorbitant fuel prices

reduce the demand and gas prices will drop (followed by so very many other prices tied to transport costs)

that’s some pretty basic supply/demand stuff

And yet people have to drive to and from work and school. Ingrates.

and yet Americans use gas for a whole slew of things other than work and school. idiot.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:03 pm

Shirley wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:36 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:18 pm

It's only "strong" when you use economic numbers that conveniently omit energy and food price indexes. As Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I'm old enough to remember when people who considered themselves "conservative" preached "personal responsibility" and didn't spend their time blaming the world and someone else for their personal economic situation.

So, you’re conceding that using core inflation numbers and trying to play them off to the public as real inflation numbers is deceptive, then. Thanks. I agree.

If the Fed had only begun using their current indicators after 2020 when Biden came to office, you'd have a point.

It didn't,
so you don't.

I "concede", nothing.

i know anecdotes are like assholes, but…

here in Utah only 3% of survey respondents indicated that the cost of fuel would change their travel plans

maybe it’s different in your community, but i think that sentiment is shared broadly in this country (and the continued record profits of the petroleum industry would seem to support that as well)

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:05 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:33 pm the American public continues to show that it is more than willing to pay exorbitant fuel prices

reduce the demand and gas prices will drop (followed by so very many other prices tied to transport costs)

that’s some pretty basic supply/demand stuff

And yet people have to drive to and from work and school. Ingrates.

This will come off as personal (vis a vis YOU), but it's not meant that way.

This shit is driving me nuts. It's a perfect example of the contradictions that are at the heart of contemporary conservatism.

Conservatives want people to be accountable for their own choices...but apparently the government is supposed to thumb the scale on gas prices (rather than letting the market - yes, prices - sort things out)?

But conservatives ALSO will seemingly do anything to avoid even acknowledging that we NEED to be transitioning away from fossil fuels, and we NEED to be spending on transportation infrastructure that makes having a personal car less important than it is now.

And of course doing things costs money, and god forbid anyone be taxed for something they don't personally use or need.

Conservatives want the government to work with one or both hands tied behind its back, always, and then get all pissy when government doesn't work.

If you want lower gas prices, then you need also to support the things that would cause demand for gas to go down.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:36 pm i know anecdotes are like assholes, but…

here in Utah only 3% of survey respondents indicated that the cost of fuel would change their travel plans

maybe it’s different in your community, but i think that sentiment is shared broadly in this country (and the continued record profits of the petroleum industry would seem to support that as well)

It's weird, but on those trips where we leave my Tacoma in KC and drive the Prius to Colorado, fuel costs seem to drop by more than half.

To your point, I do not see fewer Texans or Oklahomans in Tahoe's these days on I-70 on the way out to CO or back.

japhy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:02 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:36 pm i know anecdotes are like assholes, but…

here in Utah only 3% of survey respondents indicated that the cost of fuel would change their travel plans

maybe it’s different in your community, but i think that sentiment is shared broadly in this country (and the continued record profits of the petroleum industry would seem to support that as well)

It's weird, but on those trips where we leave my Tacoma in KC and drive the Prius to Colorado, fuel costs seem to drop by more than half.

To your point, I do not see fewer Texans or Oklahomans in Tahoe's these days on I-70 on the way out to CO or back.

It's sure awesome that 3/4-ton pickups have become virtue-signaling devices for Trumpists.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:04 pm

japhy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:02 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:36 pm i know anecdotes are like assholes, but…

here in Utah only 3% of survey respondents indicated that the cost of fuel would change their travel plans

maybe it’s different in your community, but i think that sentiment is shared broadly in this country (and the continued record profits of the petroleum industry would seem to support that as well)

It's weird, but on those trips where we leave my Tacoma in KC and drive the Prius to Colorado, fuel costs seem to drop by more than half.

To your point, I do not see fewer Texans or Oklahomans in Tahoe's these days on I-70 on the way out to CO or back.

It's sure awesome that 3/4-ton pickups have become virtue-signaling devices for Trumpists.

A rube and their money are easily parted.

And personal responsibility takes a third row seat to whining about why are gas prices "so high".

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:29 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:05 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:33 pm the American public continues to show that it is more than willing to pay exorbitant fuel prices

reduce the demand and gas prices will drop (followed by so very many other prices tied to transport costs)

that’s some pretty basic supply/demand stuff

And yet people have to drive to and from work and school. Ingrates.

and yet Americans use gas for a whole slew of things other than work and school. idiot.

And, again, I ask, why the insult? My use of ingrate was jocular. I doubt your use of idiot was the same. Does it really add anything to the discussion? Serious question.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:37 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:29 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:05 pm

And yet people have to drive to and from work and school. Ingrates.

and yet Americans use gas for a whole slew of things other than work and school. idiot.

And, again, I ask, why the insult? My use of ingrate was jocular. I doubt your use of idiot was the same. Does it really add anything to the discussion? Serious question.

make a dumb statement (which you did), suffer the consequences

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:30 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:08 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:00 am

I think, to a (clearly very significant) degree, your dispiritedness is evidence of the success of Russia's and the far right's two-step campaign to (1) blow Hunter's problems WAY out of proportion, and (2) attach - without meaningful evidence - Joe Biden to Hunter's problems.

To me, it just shows how weary we are all getting of our shitty choices in nominees. The problem is that there are better alternatives out there that people just won't choose because they are too boring. People want a humble servant of the people but they dismiss those people because they aren't the big personalities who get people excited. Just another example of the American people getting in their own way.

This is spot on, and very well put. And the media (of all stripes) very much inflames the issue.

What Americans say they want isn't supported by who they vote for in primaries. Either because they aren't honest about what they want, because they aren't brave enough to vote for someone who isn't viewed as an exciting pick or because they don't find out that one of the candidates really is what they said they want due to either the candidate not getting a chance to show what they want to do or the public not taking the time to research.

And some of us are stuck in primaries that happen so far after the fact that it is basically a worthless vote because the pool has been stripped down after the results of the first few weeks of primaries. The nominations will probably be decided on Super Tuesday or shortly thereafter. If your primary happens after Super Tuesday then you really aren't going to get to pick who you want.