Kansas Crimson

I think it's unfair to compare Elarmko to guys like Tyshawn Frank or Devonte. Regardless of any statistical similarities you may find.

I place Elmarko somewhere above Bobby Pettiford as a career floor and somewhere below EJ as a career ceiling.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:29 am Remember that game @ top 5 OU where Tyshawn Taylor dominated?
I do.

If you pieced together all of Elmarko's best plays this season maybe you get something close to that one game.

Yeah. My opinion - we all come at these things differently - is that you could just see it with Tyshawn, from the very start, even with the boneheadedness. Like a toddler doing long division but still pooping his pants.

Tyshawn could drive and get to the line too.
How many free throws has Elmarko shot this season? 1 per game?

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:55 am Tyshawn could drive and get to the line too.
How many free throws has Elmarko shot this season? 1 per game?

Say what you want about Ty, but he was a poster child for the notion that sometimes it's better to be aggressive and wrong than passive and right. When we talk about wanting to see Elmarko attack...that's exactly it.

We need him to be more Ty, less Harris.

We have a Harris, and he is a very good Harris, for all of the limitations that come with being a Harris. Elmarko cannot be a better Harris.

Tyshawn was a very polarizing player at times, especially in his first few season

Self had that famous quote about tyshawn how he "makes plays you can't coach, make plays that look like he's never been coached"

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:58 am Elmarko cannot be a better Harris.

Unless he's happy as a 8mpg back up learning from Harris and Self for 1 more year and then trying to take on the Harris role in 2 years.

It's too early to assume anything about elmarko. He's still a good prospect tho. He needs to improve his shooting and decision making and he could be pretty good. Time will tell

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:13 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:58 am Elmarko cannot be a better Harris.

Unless he's happy as a 8mpg back up learning from Harris and Self for 1 more year and then trying to take on the Harris role in 2 years.

Hard pass. I do not need the Garrett/Harris decade extended.

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:14 pm It's too early to assume anything about elmarko. He's still a good prospect tho. He needs to improve his shooting and decision making and he could be pretty good. Time will tell

Agree.

Above Pettiford career - Below EJ career seems fair.

It's a wide range.

First and foremost, we'll have to see if he's even in a KU jersey next October. If he is, I think a noticeable improvement is fair to think will be achieved.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:20 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:14 pm It's too early to assume anything about elmarko. He's still a good prospect tho. He needs to improve his shooting and decision making and he could be pretty good. Time will tell

Agree.

Above Pettiford career - Below EJ career seems fair.

It's a wide range.

First and foremost, we'll have to see if he's even in a KU jersey next October. If he is, I think a noticeable improvement is fair to think will be achieved.

Agree with this. And I want him to stay, of course. But, gosh, the vibes are sure Grimes/Bryce/Rice.

Then put me on the outskirts of randy's camp and further away from yours.
I think 4th year Elmarko is better than 4th year Elijah.

The question is whether there will be a 4th year.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:19 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:13 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:58 am Elmarko cannot be a better Harris.

Unless he's happy as a 8mpg back up learning from Harris and Self for 1 more year and then trying to take on the Harris role in 2 years.

Hard pass. I do not need the Garrett/Harris decade extended.

I don't even count Garrett as a PG tbh. He was the PG in 1 season (by default) iirc.

I am fine with a pass first PG who is also a great defender like Dajuan Harris.....but it only works if the rest of the pieces fit (meaning he's surrounded by 2-3 stars, 1 of which is a 7ft shot blocker). I like the stability of multi year PGs in a Bill Self offense.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:24 pm Then put me on the outskirts of randy's camp and further away from yours.
I think 4th year Elmarko is better than 4th year Elijah.

The question is whether there will be a 4th year.

I wouldn't say "peak Elijah" (my opinion is that was his junior year) is a hard ceiling for Jackson. But I would have that as something like a 90th percentile outcome for him at this point.

My opinion will change dramatically if he comes out next year as significantly bouncier and more assertive.

Elijah, in my memory of things, never really made a leap or a big change in style. It was just an incremental path to "good starter on good team."

And then his efficiency nosedived as a senior when his usage rate jumped into the 20s - a perfect indicator that he found his ceiling.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:24 pm
I think 4th year Elmarko is better than 4th year Elijah.

The question is whether there will be a 4th year.

I hope so.

I don't think it's unrealistic for elmarko to turn into something better than EJ. It's possible

So here's some meaningless stats to ponder, because their circumstances early in their career were completely different

EJ freshman: 2.4 pts, 1.3ast, 6.6 minutes, only played in 23 games
EJ soph: 3.4 points, 1.8 assists, 13.6 minutes

Then we saw the big jump to a starting role junior year. Elmarko plays more as a freshman than EJ even did as a sophomore

The thing is, if EJ played in the modern transfer portal/NIL era, I'm thinking there is zero chance he sticks around. He probably leaves after his freshman year and we never see his development at Kansas

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:47 pm The thing is, if EJ played in the modern transfer portal/NIL era, I'm thinking there is zero chance he sticks around. He probably leaves after his freshman year and we never see his development at Kansas

Bingo.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:54 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:47 pm The thing is, if EJ played in the modern transfer portal/NIL era, I'm thinking there is zero chance he sticks around. He probably leaves after his freshman year and we never see his development at Kansas

Bingo.

Yes.

EJ left a weird legacy here. And a huge part of it was the Michigan game. If KU doesn't lose in the sweet 16 in that OT game to Michigan (Michigan then made it all the way to the title game) he might be remembered different. Maybe KU continues for awhile, and EJ gets back to back final 4s
And then there's "the nut punch" maybe the weirdest moment of the bill self era

That bonehead dirty play defined his career.

Rightfully so.