Kansas Crimson

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:35 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:33 am

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:57 pm

People are going to get sick. It is a reality that will not be prevented by shutting things down. Data coming back is showing that the whole online school solution was a complete waste of time. You can't just not educate kids out of fear any more than you can shut down the economy out of fear. There are repercussions either way.

The science, three-plus months ago now, was that severe, collective economic/social pain for 3-4 weeks would have worked, and put us in a position to resume normal life by about now. That science is borne out by the results in countries that, you know, took that route.

We had every opportunity to address this responsibly.

Instead, we have experienced the predictable results of some people caring and some people defying a physical virus out of ideological principal: we will have 3-4 quarters of severe economic pain - at least!

Beijing says hello. And don't be a dupe.

And we had more than 3-4 weeks of severe economic pain. We had three months of it. The promised "fix" did not materialize because it was never intended to. It accomplished exactly what it was supposed to - cripple the economy and undermine the sitting POTUS. Don't be a dupe.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

imzcount wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:51 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

So you want the entire country to waste their entire savings so the Dems can try and steal an election? Wow.

The world is reopening, safely in many places, because responsible governments made the right decisions about the pandemic. Life there is slowly returning to normal.

And then, there is the United States. We just regained our worldwide lead in reported new cases, passing Brazil, with nearly 24,000 per day. USA! USA! We have had a world-leading 2.1 million infected and 116,000 dead. Much of the world doesn’t want America’s infected hordes traveling there.

Who can blame them? Other governments took the pandemic seriously and responded competently. Ours didn’t, and doesn’t. The willy-nilly reopening here, with safety requirements ignored and inadequate contact tracing, has allowed the virus to spread in much of the country, particularly in states that were most reckless in their reopenings.

[...]

The effects of the careless reopening are now becoming clear. Health-care investment-research firm Nephron, in a report Sunday, finds that the quartile of states that opened earliest has seen a 26 percent increase in cases, while the second-fastest quartile has seen a 7 percent increase. The third and fourth quartiles went down, 31 percent and 9 percent, respectively. “It is patently obvious that states that removed stay-at-home restrictions earlier are seeing worse trends in case growth this month,” Nephron concluded.

[...]

It didn’t have to be this way. Japan, where subways are busy and nightclubs are hopping, benefits from a culture that embraces mask-wearing. Virus-free New Zealand, with back-to-normal sporting events and concerts, benefits from being an island nation. But what about Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Dominica, Barbados, Uruguay, Cambodia, Thailand, Montenegro, Croatia, Fiji, Iceland and Australia? They’re also on the list of the 15 countries that a German data analysis company, Iunera, identified as being “on a successful path to recovery.” South Korea, the Czech Republic and others have also done well. Is America not as “great” as them?

“It’s just political will,” Andy Slavitt, a top health-care official in the Obama administration, told me Monday. “Are you willing to suffer short-term pain for a lot of long-term gain? Obviously, the president wasn’t.” The behavior of Trump, and of like-minded governors operating with his encouragement, is self-defeating, for it delays the restoration of commerce and the return to normal that countries around the world are now savoring.

The United States, long the envy of the world, now fumbles while others move ahead. A president who promised to put “America First” instead put us at the back of the line.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:51 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

You do realize that is literally almost impossible for a large portion of our population, right?

Spoken like a middle or upper middle class white man for sure.

I know you mean well, and I agree with you in theory on a lot of things, but sometimes it is very apparent that you are from a mostly white and probably mostly middle class area. I know you try to see things from others perspective on some/many issues, but inner city low income minorities/low income people in general of any race and poor rural individuals just don't have the ability to have 6 months of all living expenses in savings. Hell, a large portion of our country doesn't even have ANY retirement savings. It is hard for anyone to relate completely to others, so I am not trying to be critical, but that comment about savings was a little tone deaf and unrealistic for a large portion of our country that don't look like you (physically and financially).

And tbh, I certainly don't have 6 months of expenses in savings...granted I've got credit I can use and I've got retirement/investments accounts I could steal from (some with penalty of course) if it truly came to that to feed my family, but that is simply not reality for many people.

imzcount wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:51 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

So you want the entire country to waste their entire savings so the Dems can try and steal an election? Wow.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:35 am

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:59 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:28 pm A monument to American selfishness, and the predictable result of leadership that made science take a backseat to wishcasting:

Yup. It is the acme of selfishness to want to make a living and not depend on the government to feed, clothe, and shelter us.

It's hard to be patient, we aren't a nation built for it. Immediate gratification is the current US model.

All our impatience is going to do is increase the amount of time we have to ride this out. Study after study is proving that but impatience in winning. Impatient people seem to have simply chosen to be OK with killing off another giant wave of US citizens so they can make some money.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 am

imzcount wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:51 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

So you want the entire country to waste their entire savings so the Dems can try and steal an election? Wow.

No, I want people to sacrifice going to Arby's twice a week and keep their cell phones for more than 1-2 years to be prepared for unexpected bumps in their financial road. It's called adulting.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:44 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:35 am

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:59 pm

Yup. It is the acme of selfishness to want to make a living and not depend on the government to feed, clothe, and shelter us.

It's hard to be patient, we aren't a nation built for it. Immediate gratification is the current US model.

All our impatience is going to do is increase the amount of time we have to ride this out. Study after study is proving that but impatience in winning. Impatient people seem to have simply chosen to be OK with killing off another giant wave of US citizens so they can make some money.

It's not only about killing other people either. There's a my business is more important than your business mentality.

All of the nail salons and bars that opened weeks sooner than federal guidelines called for means it's going to make re-opening a movie theater not possible for additional months from when it otherwise would have been able to reopen.

In other words, if you rush into phase 2 prematureley, it's going to delay entering phase 3 and phase 4.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:38 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:51 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

You do realize that is literally almost impossible for a large portion of our population, right?

Spoken like a middle or upper middle class white man for sure.

I know you mean well, and I agree with you in theory on a lot of things, but sometimes it is very apparent that you are from a mostly white and probably mostly middle class area. I know you try to see things from others perspective on some/many issues, but inner city low income minorities/low income people in general of any race and poor rural individuals just don't have the ability to have 6 months of all living expenses in savings. Hell, a large portion of our country doesn't even have ANY retirement savings. It is hard for anyone to relate completely to others, so I am not trying to be critical, but that comment about savings was a little tone deaf and unrealistic for a large portion of our country that don't look like you (physically and financially).

And tbh, I certainly don't have 6 months of expenses in savings...granted I've got credit I can use and I've got retirement/investments accounts I could steal from (some with penalty of course) if it truly came to that to feed my family, but that is simply not reality for many people.

Bullshit.

It's not impossible at all. I lived for years off shitty tips at the restaurants I worked at and managed to save money despite making shit money.

Once we moved past near paycheck to paycheck living, my wife and I continued to make sacrifices to save for exactly these types of events. We chose to put money towards two extra house payments a year and now we have no mortgage to worry about.
You just have to make the sacrifices necessary to live within your means. THAT is what people seem to find "impossible". I could hundreds of dollars a month in bullshit unnecessary expenses out of virtually everyone's lives.

The only scenarios that makes it impossible is having kids you cannot afford or an unplanned accident or medical expense.

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:59 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

I have probably two years' worth of income saved up and at hand if need be. I'm not panicked. I am, however, not willing to lose my job/career/prospects of having a job again, nor am I willing to waste my savings on something that is just not that big of an emergency and is being propagated for political and nefarious purposes. I'm not falling for it; I am not playing the game. The rest of the populace can be duped if they want.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:51 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

You do realize that is literally almost impossible for a large portion of our population, right?

Spoken like a middle or upper middle class white man for sure.

I know you mean well, and I agree with you in theory on a lot of things, but sometimes it is very apparent that you are from a mostly white and probably mostly middle class area. I know you try to see things from others perspective on some/many issues, but inner city low income minorities/low income people in general of any race and poor rural individuals just don't have the ability to have 6 months of all living expenses in savings. Hell, a large portion of our country doesn't even have ANY retirement savings. It is hard for anyone to relate completely to others, so I am not trying to be critical, but that comment about savings was a little tone deaf and unrealistic for a large portion of our country that don't look like you (physically and financially).

And tbh, I certainly don't have 6 months of expenses in savings...granted I've got credit I can use and I've got retirement/investments accounts I could steal from (some with penalty of course) if it truly came to that to feed my family, but that is simply not reality for many people.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:51 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:38 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:51 am

You do realize that is literally almost impossible for a large portion of our population, right?

Spoken like a middle or upper middle class white man for sure.

I know you mean well, and I agree with you in theory on a lot of things, but sometimes it is very apparent that you are from a mostly white and probably mostly middle class area. I know you try to see things from others perspective on some/many issues, but inner city low income minorities/low income people in general of any race and poor rural individuals just don't have the ability to have 6 months of all living expenses in savings. Hell, a large portion of our country doesn't even have ANY retirement savings. It is hard for anyone to relate completely to others, so I am not trying to be critical, but that comment about savings was a little tone deaf and unrealistic for a large portion of our country that don't look like you (physically and financially).

And tbh, I certainly don't have 6 months of expenses in savings...granted I've got credit I can use and I've got retirement/investments accounts I could steal from (some with penalty of course) if it truly came to that to feed my family, but that is simply not reality for many people.

Bullshit.

It's not impossible at all. I lived for years off shitty tips at the restaurants I worked at and managed to save money despite making shit money.

Once we moved past near paycheck to paycheck living, my wife and I continued to make sacrifices to save for exactly these types of events. We chose to put money towards two extra house payments a year and now we have no mortgage to worry about.
You just have to make the sacrifices necessary to live within your means. THAT is what people seem to find "impossible". I could hundreds of dollars a month in bullshit unnecessary expenses out of virtually everyone's lives.

The only scenarios that makes it impossible is having kids you cannot afford or an unplanned accident or medical expense.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

I work in real estate so I see what land lords charge for rent in low income areas. There are statistics that show what various incomes are in certain areas. It is simple math that for many it is impossible to have 6months of all living expenses saved up...now, I am not saying that is "right", I am just pointing out reality.

Its also reality that many people have kids "they can't afford" by your standards...like 25%+ of the population would be my conservative estimate...again, not saying that is "right", but it is reality.

Unplanned accidents and unplanned medical expenses are also reality... and the segment of the population we are referencing are likely the same segment of the population who don't have access to affordable Healthcare.

Just something to think about. Your lived experiences are "everyone's" experiences or reality. Some people don't have the luxury or ability to do what you've done. You are a 2 income household. Both with college degrees I am assuming. Both likely from 2 parent households. Who likely didn't have children before marriage. Statistics show that isn't reality for many of the people who don't have 6 months of all living expenses in savings.

You'd probably be shocked at how many people don't even have a checking account....or how many kids don't know where there next meal will come from at various points throughout the year.

You're sort of inadvertently doing the old "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" thing that Republicans get slammed for....it just isn't reality for a segment of our populatation as far as 6 months of expenses in a savings account unfortunately.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:49 am Exactly. To avoid their own personal financial struggles (which could have been survived had they had 6 months of savings) impatient jerks have doomed the businesses and livelihood of fellow citizens.

This isnt just about adding six months of life to an old lady in a nursing home. It's about returning all of our nation back to whatever the new "normal" will be as quickly and safely as possible. The goal is to get to the finish line, folks. The rushing to open to appease the unprepared mob is ultimately making the race longer and more devastating to our economy.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:52 am

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:59 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

I have probably two years' worth of income saved up and at hand if need be. I'm not panicked. I am, however, not willing to lose my job/career/prospects of having a job again, nor am I willing to waste my savings on something that is just not that big of an emergency and is being propagated for political and nefarious purposes. I'm not falling for it; I am not playing the game. The rest of the populace can be duped if they want.

Using overlydramatic words doesn't change reality. Opening up too early doesn't do anything to ensure that your preferred career is available to you for the rest of the time you want it to exist. If anything, it makes it LESS likely.