Kansas Crimson

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:21 pm Question:

If and when this may escalate to the point of full US intervention, not just a proxy fight, but US boots on the ground in a foreign land, once again -

Are you prepared to personally go fight?

Would you want your loved ones to go fight?

This weekend you should invite all of your comrades over to your place. Grill some food and load up the vape, have a few beers. Then you should all sit down and watch, "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb". It might help ease your anxpiety a bit.

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:25 pm Not trying to bicker, but if I may respectfully ask - could you consider whether there’s any risk to the “now is not the time” sort of rhetoric?

That seems like precisely the kind of thinking the war machine propaganda wants to condition us to do. What good is being anti-war, if you’re supposed to suddenly keep quiet as soon as the war drums beat again?

If we DONT make the conversation broader, then aren’t we just making it narrower? Isn’t that playing right into the warmonger’s hands, by reducing the narrative from some actual understanding that might foster some actual dialogue toward peace, down to the oversimplified “good vs evil” sort of rhetoric it takes to gain public support for war?

That logic seems about as good as, the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting being “not the time” to discuss gun violence. Do we really need more thoughts and prayers?

The conversation doesn't need to be broader at this time; that just waters it down until people stop paying attention to it. A perfect example of that is that you have already veered off into so many bizarre directions that I have basically stopped reading this thread.

There is plenty of specifics to talk about right now to keep the anti-war message going. Actual examples of why being at war is bad on virtually everyone involved. It doesn't add anything to dilute it with a generic "maybe we should have done something 6 years ago" shtick to it. It's like spending 5 pages of the game thread arguing after the game about how maybe we should have given a freshman 20 more minutes of game time back in December. It's just bickering that guarantees nothing and accomplishes nothing.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:16 pm

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:07 pm Russia says 500 soldiers dead and 1,600 injured since the invasion began. Ukraine says they have record of almost 7,000 dead Russian soldiers and hundreds captured. Pentagon says it's probably an even about 1,500 on each side that have died in this invasion.

Probably won't ever get an accurate number from anybody.

Almost 7,000 Russians arrested for protesting.

Pretty grim that Russia brought mobile crematoriums (crematoria?) to the proceedings, so as to obscure observable KIA figures.

yup

That IS grim, Jesus.

Good for the Russian people for protesting.

Apologies to everyone for the fuss here.

I don’t mean to get anyone so worked up, myself included.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 1:55 pm https://www.icc-cpi.int/Pages/item.aspx ... 3BRd5QEWXs

The International Criminal Court (ICC) has officially opened an investigation into possible war crimes and crimes against humanity involving the current actions in Ukraine.

Hope they are able to hold him accountable.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:32 pm

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:25 pm Not trying to bicker, but if I may respectfully ask - could you consider whether there’s any risk to the “now is not the time” sort of rhetoric?

That seems like precisely the kind of thinking the war machine propaganda wants to condition us to do. What good is being anti-war, if you’re supposed to suddenly keep quiet as soon as the war drums beat again?

If we DONT make the conversation broader, then aren’t we just making it narrower? Isn’t that playing right into the warmonger’s hands, by reducing the narrative from some actual understanding that might foster some actual dialogue toward peace, down to the oversimplified “good vs evil” sort of rhetoric it takes to gain public support for war?

That logic seems about as good as, the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting being “not the time” to discuss gun violence. Do we really need more thoughts and prayers?

that’s a false equivalence

the time to not talk about gun violence is in the middle of a mass shooting, while people are still loosing their lives and the shooter is actively roaming the halls

The better analogy of what Qus is doing is calling to defund the police during an active school shooting

i knew Fiona Hill had credentials, but goddamn:

https://usip.org/sites/default/files/Fi ... graphy.pdf

Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:45 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:32 pm

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:25 pm Not trying to bicker, but if I may respectfully ask - could you consider whether there’s any risk to the “now is not the time” sort of rhetoric?

That seems like precisely the kind of thinking the war machine propaganda wants to condition us to do. What good is being anti-war, if you’re supposed to suddenly keep quiet as soon as the war drums beat again?

If we DONT make the conversation broader, then aren’t we just making it narrower? Isn’t that playing right into the warmonger’s hands, by reducing the narrative from some actual understanding that might foster some actual dialogue toward peace, down to the oversimplified “good vs evil” sort of rhetoric it takes to gain public support for war?

That logic seems about as good as, the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting being “not the time” to discuss gun violence. Do we really need more thoughts and prayers?

that’s a false equivalence

the time to not talk about gun violence is in the middle of a mass shooting, while people are still loosing their lives and the shooter is actively roaming the halls

The better analogy of what Qus is doing is calling to defund the police during an active school shooting

Respectfully, these are the sorts of things that have been getting me frustrated in this thread.

I already conceded that analogy, and suggested disregarding it for the sake of the rest of the post.

But instead of actually addressing the rest of the post, we got guys doubling down on the scrapped analogy, with even goofier shit yet.

I was making a new analogy.

You seem to be taking disagreement as personal attacks.

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:38 pm Apologies to everyone for the fuss here.

I don’t mean to get anyone so worked up, myself included.

It's all going to be OK, just take a deep breath. The worst that could happen is that we could all be vaporized in a nuclear war in the next few weeks. And then; housing shortages, wage inequality, racial injustice, climate change.....all of those issues disappear in a flash. And in the aftermath you will have no worries at all.

Years ago back in the 1980's when this was all seemed imminent as well, I had a client who wanted to build a nuclear survival bunker on his property. I told him why I thought it was impractical, but agreed to help.

His question to me was, "don't you want to survive a nuclear war?".

I told him "fuck no", if there is a nuclear war I will stand outside and watch the first brilliant dazzling flash and be awestruck for a few seconds as I wait for vaporization. What comes after will not be worth living through. I believe that today as well. Once you accept that you will not have to worry about the aftermath of a nuclear war, there will be no aftermath for any of us, then you can move on.

If we can keep the world in one piece until putin is out of power, we can start talking about getting rid of nuclear weapons completely again. Only a truly deranged motherfucker would even talk about using those. Before the next truly deranged motherfucker gets their hands on them we should agree on how to keep them out of everyone's hands.

Oh, and after you watch "Dr Strangelove", watch "The Day The Earth Stood Still". That would be a great double feature at a drive in out in the desert somewhere.

the roaches will survive



Will Smith be damned

so in a matter of hours we’ve gone from “wartime is not the time to discuss being anti-war” to “just try to enjoy the flash for a few seconds, at least the roaches will survive.”

Allsome.

Stand down China, your diplomacy is no longer of service, cuz I feel better already!

Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:32 pm I was making a new analogy.

You seem to be taking disagreement as personal attacks.

Oh. Ok.

Well fwiw, I’m not sure your new analogy works well, either.

Here’s another analogy that may or may not work well either, either:

say you’re a parent, with two kids. Like two kids, they’re prone to roughhousing. You hear a ruckus out in the yard, and run out there. Looks like the two kids have been roughhousing again.

As soon as you get out there, one kid instinctively points to the other and exclaims, “HE started it!”

Now, the wisest thing to do as a parent would be to just promptly take that kid’s word for it.

right?

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:01 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:32 pm I was making a new analogy.

You seem to be taking disagreement as personal attacks.

Oh. Ok.

Well fwiw, I’m not sure your new analogy works well, either.

Here’s another analogy that may or may not work well either, either:

say you’re a parent, with two kids. Like two kids, they’re prone to roughhousing. You hear a ruckus out in the yard, and run out there. Looks like the two kids have been roughhousing again.

As soon as you get out there, one kid instinctively points to the other and exclaims, “HE started it!”

Now, the wisest thing to do as a parent would be to just promptly take that kid’s word for it.

right?

That depends. Did I already go through one of the kids' backpacks and read about his plans to beat the other kid up, and then also watch him throw the first real punch?

Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:05 pm

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:01 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:32 pm I was making a new analogy.

You seem to be taking disagreement as personal attacks.

Oh. Ok.

Well fwiw, I’m not sure your new analogy works well, either.

Here’s another analogy that may or may not work well either, either:

say you’re a parent, with two kids. Like two kids, they’re prone to roughhousing. You hear a ruckus out in the yard, and run out there. Looks like the two kids have been roughhousing again.

As soon as you get out there, one kid instinctively points to the other and exclaims, “HE started it!”

Now, the wisest thing to do as a parent would be to just promptly take that kid’s word for it.

right?

That depends. Did I already go through one of the kids' backpacks and read about his plans to beat the other kid up?

Now. Is. Not. The. Time!

Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:05 pm

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:01 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:32 pm I was making a new analogy.

You seem to be taking disagreement as personal attacks.

Oh. Ok.

Well fwiw, I’m not sure your new analogy works well, either.

Here’s another analogy that may or may not work well either, either:

say you’re a parent, with two kids. Like two kids, they’re prone to roughhousing. You hear a ruckus out in the yard, and run out there. Looks like the two kids have been roughhousing again.

As soon as you get out there, one kid instinctively points to the other and exclaims, “HE started it!”

Now, the wisest thing to do as a parent would be to just promptly take that kid’s word for it.

right?

That depends. Did I already go through one of the kids' backpacks and read about his plans to beat the other kid up, and then also watch him throw the first real punch?

not to mention that one kid has a history of starting shit unprovoked

also, is the kid getting picked on a former fetus in fetu that was just trying to live its own life, out from under the shadow of the other?

What the eff is this, seeking context and wondering if there’s other factors and shit?

It would be an awful lot easier to just take the goddamn kid’s word for it!

I think there is the disconnect. You think we're over-simplifying. We're not.