Kansas Crimson

Except Vick has good to decent numbers.
Did you see the part where Grimes is shooting 28%?
That isn’t good.

See the part where Vick, a senior, loafs on both ends in a partial daze, and then blames teammates for losses. That isn't good.

When vick is engaged and hot hes a huge asset. When hes not hes a detriment and doesnt impact the game in other ways postively.

Theres more to the game than numbers and boxscores.

Grimes also hasn't been accused of kicking a girl in the face....so there's that.

Again, I didn’t say he’s my favorite Jayhawk or particularly likeable. You can bring up the accusation over and over - it has no bearing on what I’m arguing.

Pooka Williams makes KU a better team because of his skill set.

I understand your point. Unfortunately you dont understand mine/ours. Its all good. Im done, just arguing to argue now.

thekid6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:46 pm I know this may be the wrong thread, but I see Grimes in a Wayne Selden like position. It may take another year or two to get going, but he will figure it out and make the league.

In other news, anyone know when/if Vick will be back with the team?

surprised the there hasn’t been more hints about what’s going on

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:53 am

thekid6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:46 pm I know this may be the wrong thread, but I see Grimes in a Wayne Selden like position. It may take another year or two to get going, but he will figure it out and make the league.

In other news, anyone know when/if Vick will be back with the team?

surprised the there hasn’t been more hints about what’s going on

I think it really is a personal issue. That's why no leaks or comments....but personal issue or not, I don't think it's guaranteed he comes back either way.

I was hearing some stuff from one of the KU podcasts (so take it with a grain of salt) that Vick isn’t very likely to come back at all, most likely not soon, and probably at the earliest by the postseason. The folks wouldn’t say what they heard because it was speculation and what they were hearing wasn’t stuff they felt like they should share even if the knew it was true.

Self made a comment very early in Hawk Talk last night that had only the thinnest covering over a pretty direct shot at Vick.

I don't want to get it wrong so I just listened again:

Well last night was the first time in a long time it felt like we didn't have any of that negative stuff, you hanging over us. I was really proud of our guys because - there's some reasons for that, wth some individuals.

Just watching a freshman play with so much joy, with a smile on his face like Ochai does, that stuff's contagious. I thought even when it got bad and we were obviously struggling, I thought that's when we competed the hardest.

https://kuathletics.leanplayer.com/past-events

I think the Self quote there says it all. I agree too. I haven’t enjoyed a game all season like that one. I even watched during the end of the Owens years win or lose. Something was simply “off” this year. Ship is righted and effort is back. I thank Vick for his time, but not for his leadership.

I had a blast beating down Texas Tech.
That was a great game.

If Vick's demons were dragging the team emotionally, that's not good - but we shot 30% from 3 v TCU and were moments loosing to them so I don't fully buy the argument that we're better off without him.

Feeling better/happier as a unit? Yes.
Do we loose an aspect of our game that is a weakness of ours at the same time? Yes.

I think back to the day SDS was declared ineligible... post on social media showing support from nearly every guy on the team.

After win without Vick....nothing..no posts from him. No posts from our players.

Not saying it means anything.

But even guys like Devonte and Jamari and Svi are posting things after nearly every game showing support.

I hope whatever it is with Vick that it has nothing to do with his kid(s).

It just seems that the only counter argument to Vick is of his character and that it is having a negative affect on the team.

We don't actually know that yet. We won a close game were Dedric Lawson had a fit and was benched for the last few minutes of the first half.

Maybe we would have won by more with Vick maybe Dedric would of had more room to operate. I just don't think that the TCU victory is a sign at all that we are a better team without Vick.

I'm tired of people bashing Vick for being who he is. Yes, it's frustrating for us fans (and it seems maybe his teammates and coaches too) but my guess is it's even more frustrating for Vick.
He keeps being forced to be someone and something he's just not.
Part of living your life is about striving to become a better person but it's also about acceptance.

Gutter/Jack Handy 2/13/19

I think it's fine to criticize his on the court behavior.
And his off the court behavior if it's something that is hurting others.

There are 2 main problems I have an issue with:
1. Discrediting his accomplishments on the court - he's an above average to good player - his mistakes are exacerbated on this board.
2. To celebrate his absence because of a personal matter not knowing at all what it could be.

kcmokufan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:44 pm It just seems that the only counter argument to Vick is of his character and that it is having a negative affect on the team.

We don't actually know that yet. We won a close game were Dedric Lawson had a fit and was benched for the last few minutes of the first half.

Maybe we would have won by more with Vick maybe Dedric would of had more room to operate. I just don't think that the TCU victory is a sign at all that we are a better team without Vick.

I'm not sure it's so much that Vick's character (in and of itself) was having a negative effect on the team. We've won with very bad guys, and lost with very good guys.

But - whatever's going on in Vick's personal life (whether brought on by his character or otherwise) was clearly having a greatly negative effect on his ability to be engaged and reliable. And that was having a negative effect on the team.

kcmokufan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:44 pm It just seems that the only counter argument to Vick is of his character and that it is having a negative affect on the team.

He has a history, including this season, of significantly declining play once conference season starts and tougher opponents are on the schedule.

Despite how inconsistent he is, though, we do benefit from his outside shooting and need(ed) him to stay aggressive.

There is an on-court benefit, but having seen what we've seen at Agbaji, the benefit does not outweigh hindering Agbaji's minutes/role at all nor if it upsets the team chemistry (or head coach) significantly. If the benefit can be had without upsetting the apple cart, then by all means let him back if that's what Bill wants.

Whether or not his play declined, it was still above average to good.
12.6 PPG, 49% FG, 44% 3FG ( these are conference stats ).
He is/was the 3rd leading scorer in conference play.

The 3 point % is still the best on our team and that's shooting double the attempts of the 2nd closest, Devon Dotson, at 43% 3FG, and that's with teams clearly keying on him on the perimeter.

So this argument that, this season, suddenly his play plummeted, is without warrant.
It certainly regressed ( I definitely wouldn't call it significantly ) but he's still a good player.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:20 pm Whether or not his play declined, it was still above average to good.
12.6 PPG, 49% FG, 44% 3FG ( these are conference stats ).
He is/was the 3rd leading scorer in conference play.

The 3 point % is still the best on our team and that's shooting double the attempts of the 2nd closest, Devon Dotson, at 43% 3FG, and that's with teams clearly keying on him on the perimeter.

So this argument that, this season, suddenly his play plummeted, is without warrant.
It certainly regressed ( I definitely wouldn't call it significantly ) but he's still a good player.

Not if you watched the games, it's not.