Kansas Crimson

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:10 pm So yes. The left used it politically. Sadly it worked. But at what cost? Biden is in office but he faces such an unbelievable uphill battle to restore all the damage his political party did in the process of getting him elected. And it was all so rich powerful politicians could become richer and more powerful. People need to consider what their votes really lead to

What a crock of shit. The reason nothing is getting done is Mitch McConnell (and the Democrats' cowardice to abandon the filibuster).

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:17 pm This board is a good example of division. This is a group of people with a common love for Jayhawk basketball

And look how we treat anyone viewed as "the other side".

This is our country.

Well the left needs to abandon this obsession with race. Its taking us back not pushing us forward. Most people of all races are good decent people

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:28 pm Well the left needs to abandon this obsession with race. Its taking us back not pushing us forward. Most people of all races are good decent people

Would you say that people calling out other people about racism, is a bigger problem than the racism itself?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:30 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:28 pm Well the left needs to abandon this obsession with race. Its taking us back not pushing us forward. Most people of all races are good decent people

Would you say that people calling out other people about racism, is a bigger problem than the racism itself?

We've done this game.

Racism is the bigger problem, obviously.

But if you make everything racism that isn't actually racism then that's a problem also.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:34 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:30 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:28 pm Well the left needs to abandon this obsession with race. Its taking us back not pushing us forward. Most people of all races are good decent people

Would you say that people calling out other people about racism, is a bigger problem than the racism itself?

We've done this game.

Racism is the bigger problem, obviously.

But if you make everything racism that isn't actually racism then that's a problem also.

Why do you as an assumed white guy get to decide what should and shouldn't be considered "racism" and what should and shouldn't offend those "of color"?
Not trying to be snide or combative. It's a legit question that I am interested in the/your answer to.

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:12 pm The same people declaring it wasn't safe to do anything really. Couldn't go to the gym. Couldn't gather in groups of more than 5, 10, or whatever. The same people encouraged people to gather and protest in masses, as if that was covid safe. Hell we all saw reports of where buildings were actively on fire and they called them "peaceful protests"

That whole scenario was very telling that this was always more about politics than a virus

This is the problem with this kind of Us vs. Them mentality. Everyone who disagrees with you just becomes a single monolithic individual.

You falsely labeled me as a liberal because I have correctly concluded that vaccines are safe and effective and want everyone to know that.

I was in favor of shut downs to help mitigate the virus. But I was never supportive of the protests, at least not the public gatherings, and I was very vocal that they should find another means of protest during a pandemic.

You can't just assume the people supporting protests are necessarily the same people supporting virus mitigation efforts just because both are in disagreement with you.

NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:41 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:34 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:30 pm

Would you say that people calling out other people about racism, is a bigger problem than the racism itself?

We've done this game.

Racism is the bigger problem, obviously.

But if you make everything racism that isn't actually racism then that's a problem also.

Why do you as an assumed white guy get to decide what should and shouldn't be considered "racism" and what should and shouldn't offend those "of color"?
Not trying to be snide or combative. It's a legit question that I am interested in the/your answer to.

Truthfully as a white person I do not get to decide those things. Nor should I.

And thats exactly why when it's the white liberals doing the racism labeling that it makes my eyes roll.

For the most part white people can't relate or understand the types of racism people of color face in out country (particularly black people). The best thing to do is listen, learn, and be an ally when needed.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:41 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:12 pm The same people declaring it wasn't safe to do anything really. Couldn't go to the gym. Couldn't gather in groups of more than 5, 10, or whatever. The same people encouraged people to gather and protest in masses, as if that was covid safe. Hell we all saw reports of where buildings were actively on fire and they called them "peaceful protests"

That whole scenario was very telling that this was always more about politics than a virus

This is the problem with this kind of Us vs. Them mentality. Everyone who disagrees with you just becomes a single monolithic individual.

You falsely labeled me as a liberal because I have correctly concluded that vaccines are safe and effective and want everyone to know that.

I was in favor of shut downs to help mitigate the virus. But I was never supportive of the protests, at least not the public gatherings, and I was very vocal that they should find another means of protest during a pandemic.

You can't just assume the people supporting protests are necessarily the same people supporting virus mitigation efforts just because both are in disagreement with you.

Shut up, hippy.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:14 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:07 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:56 pm Yes Trump wanted to shut down travel to China at the very beginning and was called xenophobic for it and later they blamed him for not doing enough to stop covid. So that was very political

it was never about travel to china, it was travel from china

and he did institute a faux ban...faux because hundreds were still permitted to come, so it wasn’t a ban at all (it was restricted)

It's probably really not fair to call it faux ban if you were against the "ban" in the 1st place (not you specifically, but in general). It was the right thing to do imo. Hundreds being permitted to come was reasonable in many instances (often times they were american citizens).

it would have been the right thing to do if it hadn’t been a sieve, still letting people in...and let me be clear, they were being let in without any sort of robust screening

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:53 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:14 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:07 pm

it was never about travel to china, it was travel from china

and he did institute a faux ban...faux because hundreds were still permitted to come, so it wasn’t a ban at all (it was restricted)

It's probably really not fair to call it faux ban if you were against the "ban" in the 1st place (not you specifically, but in general). It was the right thing to do imo. Hundreds being permitted to come was reasonable in many instances (often times they were american citizens).

it would have been the right thing to do if it hadn’t been a sieve, still letting people in...and let me be clear, they were being let in without any sort of robust screening

Did we even have robust screening gor anything at that point?

And as far as letting people in, you can't trap American Citizens in another country at a time like that. Some people had to be let back in.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:46 pm

NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:41 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:34 pm
We've done this game.

Racism is the bigger problem, obviously.

But if you make everything racism that isn't actually racism then that's a problem also.

Why do you as an assumed white guy get to decide what should and shouldn't be considered "racism" and what should and shouldn't offend those "of color"?
Not trying to be snide or combative. It's a legit question that I am interested in the/your answer to.

Truthfully as a white person I do not get to decide those things. Nor should I.

And thats exactly why when it's the white liberals doing the racism labeling that it makes my eyes roll.

For the most part white people can't relate or understand the types of racism people of color face in out country (particularly black people). The best thing to do is listen, learn, and be an ally when needed.

I like your response.
Here is another difficult question in relation to it.
The past year and a quarter I spent many hours speaking with and listening to "people of color" discussing racism and what they have experienced. It was enlightening. Upsetting at times and uplifting at times. That being said, NOT ONCE did I hear ANYONE calling out those "of color" who have given "people of color" a bad name. I found that very surprising. Why do YOU think they didn't? I don't think there is a definitive right or wrong answer to my question.

Getting back to Covid on the ground.......
I know I sound like a broken record but I am somewhat distraught right now that WE (our country as a whole) are going backwards. You would think by now people would be worn out from all this Covid shit and want to do anything and everything possible to get rid of it. Nope, we live in the ME generation and too many people just don't give a damn about how Covid has and is continuing to affect others.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:59 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:53 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:14 pm

It's probably really not fair to call it faux ban if you were against the "ban" in the 1st place (not you specifically, but in general). It was the right thing to do imo. Hundreds being permitted to come was reasonable in many instances (often times they were american citizens).

it would have been the right thing to do if it hadn’t been a sieve, still letting people in...and let me be clear, they were being let in without any sort of robust screening

Did we even have robust screening gor anything at that point?

And as far as letting people in, you can't trap American Citizens in another country at a time like that. Some people had to be let back in.

i didn’t say they should’ve been left to fend for themselves in a foreign country

maybe i should’ve been more clear. they shouldn’t have been allowed back in without restrictions and protective measures in place

NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:00 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:46 pm

NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:41 pm

Why do you as an assumed white guy get to decide what should and shouldn't be considered "racism" and what should and shouldn't offend those "of color"?
Not trying to be snide or combative. It's a legit question that I am interested in the/your answer to.

Truthfully as a white person I do not get to decide those things. Nor should I.

And thats exactly why when it's the white liberals doing the racism labeling that it makes my eyes roll.

For the most part white people can't relate or understand the types of racism people of color face in out country (particularly black people). The best thing to do is listen, learn, and be an ally when needed.

I like your response.
Here is another difficult question in relation to it.
The past year and a quarter I spent many hours speaking with and listening to "people of color" discussing racism and what they have experienced. It was enlightening. Upsetting at times and uplifting at times. That being said, NOT ONCE did I hear ANYONE calling out those "of color" who have given "people of color" a bad name. I found that very surprising. Why do YOU think they didn't? I don't think there is a definitive right or wrong answer to my question.

Getting back to Covid on the ground.......
I know I sound like a broken record but I am somewhat distraught right now that WE (our country as a whole) are going backwards. You would think by now people would be worn out from all this Covid shit and want to do anything and everything possible to get rid of it. Nope, we live in the ME generation and too many people just don't give a damn about how Covid has and is continuing to affect others.

First part: i think that's totally subjective to whoever you were speaking to. I also think that when discussing racism it doesn't always have to be/shouldn't be a "yeah but" discussion. For example someone says racism is bad and someone else replies "yeah but what about black on black crime". Thats unproductive. Racism is the topic at hand. We don't go to a cancer seminar and say "yeah but what about diabetes".

From my experience black people absolutely hate the black on black crime just as much as they hate police brutality issues or as much as they hate racism issues. But they're independent topics even if they're related in various ways.

And every black person has a unique experience. Some black people claim they've never experienced racism. Others experience it daily. All lived experiences are relevant, worthwhile, and deserve respect/consideration.

Second part: i am worried too, but we aren't necessarily going backwards. Death rates and hospitalization rates will continue to improve because the vaccines work and our treatmemt is improving. Unfortunately, the virus is likely here to stay in some capacity and it's very likely we will need to continue to get vaccinated yearly. That's okay. Not ideal, but it may be reality.

I think most people care about others. There is a vocal minority that is adamantly against vaccines. They're smaller than they appear because it's not ALL unvaccinated people who subscribe to that line of thinking. Some unvaccinated people are scared or unsure, but not actively campaigning against people getting vaccinated. I am okay if those people are hesitant. I wouldn't invite them into my house, but i choose not to ridicule or shame them. I was hesitant to get the vaccine too at first. I still probably wouldn't let either of my kids get the vaccine yet if they were asked to participate in the ongoing trials (ages 4 and 7). I'd rather keep them socially distanced and wearing masks for now....but when the time is right and the science says it's safe for their age group then they will likely get it.

I know its hard to stay positive in these uncertain times gutter. And even more scary for you since i know your main concern is not yourself, but your mother and family who can't get vaccinated or are immunocomprimised. My older parents are the main reason i chose to get vaccinated as well even though i am aware that statistically covid poses very little threat to me.

Stay positive as much as you can. You will get through this one way or another.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:24 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:59 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:53 pm
it would have been the right thing to do if it hadn’t been a sieve, still letting people in...and let me be clear, they were being let in without any sort of robust screening

Did we even have robust screening gor anything at that point?

And as far as letting people in, you can't trap American Citizens in another country at a time like that. Some people had to be let back in.

i didn’t say they should’ve been left to fend for themselves in a foreign country

maybe i should’ve been more clear. they shouldn’t have been allowed back in without restrictions and protective measures in place

Ok. Gotcha. Ya we agree. They should have stuck them in a hotel for 2 weeks and quarantined for sure.

The plan sucked as far as the "ban" goes. We are in total agreement there.

Personally i thought all airline travel should have been shut down (even between states) and borders closed for many months. Maybe the entire year. Otherwise you're just playing whack a mole it seemed like.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:46 pm

NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:41 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:34 pm
We've done this game.

Racism is the bigger problem, obviously.

But if you make everything racism that isn't actually racism then that's a problem also.

Why do you as an assumed white guy get to decide what should and shouldn't be considered "racism" and what should and shouldn't offend those "of color"?
Not trying to be snide or combative. It's a legit question that I am interested in the/your answer to.

Truthfully as a white person I do not get to decide those things. Nor should I.

And thats exactly why when it's the white liberals doing the racism labeling that it makes my eyes roll.

For the most part white people can't relate or understand the types of racism people of color face in out country (particularly black people). The best thing to do is listen, learn, and be an ally when needed.

And which demographic do you think is more likely to listen, learn, and be an ally (particularly to black people) when needed - white liberals, or the demographic that likes to whine about how they think white liberals make everything about racism?

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:29 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:24 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:59 pm

Did we even have robust screening gor anything at that point?

And as far as letting people in, you can't trap American Citizens in another country at a time like that. Some people had to be let back in.

i didn’t say they should’ve been left to fend for themselves in a foreign country

maybe i should’ve been more clear. they shouldn’t have been allowed back in without restrictions and protective measures in place

Ok. Gotcha. Ya we agree. They should have stuck them in a hotel for 2 weeks and quarantined for sure.

The plan sucked as far as the "ban" goes. We are in total agreement there.

Personally i thought all airline travel should have been shut down (even between states) and borders closed for many months. Maybe the entire year. Otherwise you're just playing whack a mole it seemed like.

yes

but it wouldn’t have taken months. 3-4 weeks would have been sufficient to make an enormous difference, so long as common sense mitigation measures were followed locally

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:33 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:46 pm

NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:41 pm

Why do you as an assumed white guy get to decide what should and shouldn't be considered "racism" and what should and shouldn't offend those "of color"?
Not trying to be snide or combative. It's a legit question that I am interested in the/your answer to.

Truthfully as a white person I do not get to decide those things. Nor should I.

And thats exactly why when it's the white liberals doing the racism labeling that it makes my eyes roll.

For the most part white people can't relate or understand the types of racism people of color face in out country (particularly black people). The best thing to do is listen, learn, and be an ally when needed.

And which demographic do you think is more likely to listen, learn, and be an ally (particularly to black people) when needed - white liberals, or the demographic that likes to whine about how they think white liberals make everything about racism?

You're too busy doing to "my team is better than your team" thing to add anything productive to the convo maybe.

Just because 1 side is better than the other doesn't mean the better side doesn't have issues or do problematic shit.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:35 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:29 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:24 pm
i didn’t say they should’ve been left to fend for themselves in a foreign country

maybe i should’ve been more clear. they shouldn’t have been allowed back in without restrictions and protective measures in place

Ok. Gotcha. Ya we agree. They should have stuck them in a hotel for 2 weeks and quarantined for sure.

The plan sucked as far as the "ban" goes. We are in total agreement there.

Personally i thought all airline travel should have been shut down (even between states) and borders closed for many months. Maybe the entire year. Otherwise you're just playing whack a mole it seemed like.

yes

but it wouldn’t have taken months. 3-4 weeks would have been sufficient to make an enormous difference, so long as common sense mitigation measures were followed locally

I disagree there knowing what we know now. Eradication of the virus entirely was going to take extreme and prolonged shutdowns.

We shutdown for months and made nice progress....but the moment we opened up the spike began again. The virus was in circulation far too widely to think this was just a few week fix.

Sure in theory if we had a total global shutdown of 3-4 weeks where NOBODY left their house for ANYTHING then that timeline works. But anything short of extreme and total lockdown allows for too much transmission to continue to occur.

The issue isn't when people call out true racism. Thats warranted. But lots of things that have nothing do with with someone's race continue to get made into a racial issue