Kansas Crimson

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:04 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:54 pm I'll play my own devil's advocate for myself here, because twocoach isn't smart enough to make good arguments against me.

The best reason for playing teams like Wofford, or ETSU, or whichever mid-major conference team who is actually really good, is because those are the types of teams we're likely to meet in the second or third round of the ncaa tournament if we are a 1 or 2 seed or in the first round if we're a 3 or 4 seed. From a coaching perspective that matters.

but, from a fan standpoint, playing East Tennessee in November just isn't a great game, and you really don't have much to gain from it.

Last 5 2nd- 3rd round games...
'19- Auburn and then would have been Carolina
'18- Seton Hall and then Clemson
'17- Michigan State and then Purdue
'16- UConn and then Maryland
'15- Wichita State and then would have been Notre Dame

But please, go on...

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:01 am I hope our roster spots get finalized soon so we can move to arguing about how many minutes everyone will get.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:26 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:04 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:54 pm I'll play my own devil's advocate for myself here, because twocoach isn't smart enough to make good arguments against me.

The best reason for playing teams like Wofford, or ETSU, or whichever mid-major conference team who is actually really good, is because those are the types of teams we're likely to meet in the second or third round of the ncaa tournament if we are a 1 or 2 seed or in the first round if we're a 3 or 4 seed. From a coaching perspective that matters.

but, from a fan standpoint, playing East Tennessee in November just isn't a great game, and you really don't have much to gain from it.

12 seeds make the S16 just about as often as 5 seeds do.

I made a mistake with my post. Sorry about that.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:26 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:04 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:54 pm I'll play my own devil's advocate for myself here, because twocoach isn't smart enough to make good arguments against me.

The best reason for playing teams like Wofford, or ETSU, or whichever mid-major conference team who is actually really good, is because those are the types of teams we're likely to meet in the second or third round of the ncaa tournament if we are a 1 or 2 seed or in the first round if we're a 3 or 4 seed. From a coaching perspective that matters.

but, from a fan standpoint, playing East Tennessee in November just isn't a great game, and you really don't have much to gain from it.

Last 5 2nd- 3rd round games...
'19- Auburn and then would have been Carolina
'18- Seton Hall and then Clemson
'17- Michigan State and then Purdue
'16- UConn and then Maryland
'15- Wichita State and then would have been Notre Dame

But please, go on...

'15 WSU is the perfect example of a good mid-major.
2010 - UNI
2011 - Richmond (and VCU, 4th round, but a 12 seed that falls in the same category)
2019 - we were a buzzer beater away from playing NMSU, who we scheduled precisely for this reason. We were a 4 seed, other 4 seeds, like KSU played UC Irvine, FSU played Murray State, and Va Tech played Liberty

We can go all day, with this, I mean, we got Seton Hall in '18 who the committee ranked 29th overall but we could have easily gotten Nevada who the committee ranked 27th overall. I don't know why you'd argue that there isn't a reasonably good chance you'll be paired up with a really good, possibly underseeded mid-major team in the tournament it happens every year. 12 seeds make the S16 just about as often as 5 seeds do.

Of course, you're also likely to play teams from power conferences, but we have at least 25 games against those teams. We only have a couple against ETSU and UNC-greensboro which is a completely different style of team, style of play, etc.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:34 am I could get on the side of someone saying they want a bigger rotation for November/December games to get players more comfortable. What I can't get behind is someone saying a guy like Christian Braun, for example, would be more prepared to face a team like Duke in the Elite Eight because he played 12 minutes on November 18th against Southwest Arizona Tech.

Paul1 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:58 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:26 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:04 pm

Last 5 2nd- 3rd round games...
'19- Auburn and then would have been Carolina
'18- Seton Hall and then Clemson
'17- Michigan State and then Purdue
'16- UConn and then Maryland
'15- Wichita State and then would have been Notre Dame

But please, go on...

'15 WSU is the perfect example of a good mid-major.
2010 - UNI
2011 - Richmond (and VCU, 4th round, but a 12 seed that falls in the same category)
2019 - we were a buzzer beater away from playing NMSU, who we scheduled precisely for this reason. We were a 4 seed, other 4 seeds, like KSU played UC Irvine, FSU played Murray State, and Va Tech played Liberty

We can go all day, with this, I mean, we got Seton Hall in '18 who the committee ranked 29th overall but we could have easily gotten Nevada who the committee ranked 27th overall. I don't know why you'd argue that there isn't a reasonably good chance you'll be paired up with a really good, possibly underseeded mid-major team in the tournament it happens every year. 12 seeds make the S16 just about as often as 5 seeds do.

Of course, you're also likely to play teams from power conferences, but we have at least 25 games against those teams. We only have a couple against ETSU and UNC-greensboro which is a completely different style of team, style of play, etc.

"Just about as often" or not, if I'm not mistaken, 12s are 50-90 against 5s since 1985.

Forgetting that, we can all debate whatever facts we want in terms of what does and doesn't benefit us in terms of who we play during the regular season but at the end of the day I'm convinced it really doesn't mean jack shit once the ball is tipped during the tournament.
You play who you play, you beat who you beat or you lose to who you lose. Mid-major, Major, whatever. The tournament is a whole new season as UMBC proved in 2018 and then Virginia proved in 2019.

Carry on.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:31 pm I can't think of a single good reason for playing Udoka more than absolutely necessary early on.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:40 pmIt's much more frequent now than it was in the mid-80s.

Since 2001 12 seeds have won 32 games and lost 44. That's better than 42%, so I stand by my just about as often statement. From 1985-2000 only 18 12 seeds beat 5 seeds out of 64 games, so that's about 28% of the time. Maybe expansion to 65 and then 68 is a factor.

Since we're talking about scheduling now, and not 30 years ago, I think the more recent data matters more.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:16 am We've gone 8-1 against mid major teams in the tourney since 2012. We seem to be prepared for those games just fine.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:29 pm

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:34 am I could get on the side of someone saying they want a bigger rotation for November/December games to get players more comfortable. What I can't get behind is someone saying a guy like Christian Braun, for example, would be more prepared to face a team like Duke in the Elite Eight because he played 12 minutes on November 18th against Southwest Arizona Tech.

But everything has a trickle-down effect, right? It seems like, far too often, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy where a guy can't even be thought of to play meaningful minutes in a meaningful game late in the year because he hasn't done it during the year. Well???

And there's a special case this year in the frontcourt. You almost shouldn't play Udoka any more than is absolutely necessary in November/December/January.