Kansas Crimson

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:14 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:07 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:01 pmHard to play small ball with 2 non shooters on the floor and nobody truly elite at consistently getting to the hoop for easy points.

I think we are doing about all we can with the roster we have. If Dave eliminates the jumpers and cuts down on the turnovers then we are in a decent spot. But in the end this team must outscore other teams from behind the arc. We can't take and make less 3s than our opponents and expect to win very often. That is our teams strength with wilson och and cb.

So you say that we are doing all we can and then say we are not doing all we can?


We already played small ball this season. It worked in spurts. I think the way out is mixing those lineups in and using Mac/MG differently. The current setup isn't working.

I think we are basically forced to play (or attempt to play) DMac and Mitch for 30ish combined minutes most nights. Wilson and Enaruna can't play the 5 for 25+min a night imo. Just doesn't seem realistic when we are going to have to play MG and DH together for a lot of those minutes.

I agree with this, from the perspective of the season as a whole.

That said, when we were down, say 14 in the second half, why didn't we go 5 guards at all?

I've probably been the biggest advocate on this board of playing a big as our base system...but even I think there are times when going 5 out is our best option, at least in stretches.

Yes. We need him to be great, but him being great alone isn't taking us anywhere. More important to get the other guys going.


I put almost 100% of the struggles on the staff. Most can be traced back to some sort of gameday or recruiting tactic. Silvio defection is the only thing you can't blame them for.

If 5 guards is best, that means:
a. you think peak Enaruna is better than peak McCormack.
b. you've given up on McCormack after he averaged 20 PPG in his last 3 because he got into foul trouble v Baylor.

The other angle of DMac's good games being close games or losses seems to place the blame on DMac - when he was the one who played well. DMac going 8-14 doesn't force Braun to go 1-6 from 3 or Jalen Wilson to turn it over 7 times. Sometimes you just gotta make your shots ( it is basketball after all ) and take care of the ball.

pdub and phd need to quit cherry-picking DMac’s best games as evidence of who he is

it’s more likely that he’s the average of his best and worst games. you can’t just throw out his stinkers to support your argument

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:50 am And I should have prefaced that by saying this team has the chance to be special next year because a core group of Wilson, Och and CB could be very good.

This year is a wash. We all know Self isn't going to pull MG off the ball and won't stop force feeding the ball to D-Mac.

will och be here tho??

Big 12 play.

DMac - PER 29.1, .565 TS, .500 eFG, 116.6 ORtg.
Ochai - PER 20.3, .586 TS, .565 eFG, 120.3 ORtg.
Jalen - PER 16.4, .543 TS, .508 eFG, 104.2 ORtg.
Garrett - PER 15.1, .529 TS, .508 eFG, 106.6 ORtg.
Braun - PER 14.1, .555 TS, .535 eFG, 107.4 ORtg.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:33 pm pdub and phd need to quit cherry-picking DMac’s best games as evidence of who he is

it’s more likely that he’s the average of his best and worst games. you can’t just throw out his stinkers to support your argument

You have to take last night into account, no question.

I think you have to remember that in the first three he was 1. hurt (at least against UK) 2. and sped up even more than normal because of the anticipation of starting a new season. Keep in mind for #2, First game back after pandemic that cancelled end of last season, DMac is suddenly supposed to be 'the guy', and we're playing #1 ranked team, then trying to make up for that, then another blue blood. It was the perfect storm for him to shit the bed.

My concern with McCormack is usage (which is also on Self) and TOs. but if you sit Dave and play Enaruna. And in doing so, you are bringing in a guy with a higher TOV%, lower TRB% and lower Blk%, and almost the same TS% - which is better than eFG% imho (those numbers include all games, btw).

I do think there's a fix for Dave here - and that's knowing when to pass back out.
You aren't a post play nightmare like Dok where you can brute force past doubles.
And you don't have the moves/touch like a Morris/Ellis to where you can finesse past doubles.

So first - CALM down a bit - and then ( despite what some guy on twitter said earlier ) use your passing ability to move the ball/switch courts when you feel the double.

A highlight video of Dave would make him look like an All-American. You have to get that out of him while also limiting putting him in a position to make terrible plays, which he's also prone to do. This is staff stuff, the frustration should be there and not at Dave per se.

There needs to be games where we shouldn't see him much and others where he eats. Happened with Udoka in 2018.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:25 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:14 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:07 pm

So you say that we are doing all we can and then say we are not doing all we can?


We already played small ball this season. It worked in spurts. I think the way out is mixing those lineups in and using Mac/MG differently. The current setup isn't working.

I think we are basically forced to play (or attempt to play) DMac and Mitch for 30ish combined minutes most nights. Wilson and Enaruna can't play the 5 for 25+min a night imo. Just doesn't seem realistic when we are going to have to play MG and DH together for a lot of those minutes.

I agree with this, from the perspective of the season as a whole.

That said, when we were down, say 14 in the second half, why didn't we go 5 guards at all?

I've probably been the biggest advocate on this board of playing a big as our base system...but even I think there are times when going 5 out is our best option, at least in stretches.

My guess is that last night Self didn't look to go that route becuase of how physical and big baylor is. Vital weighs 250lbs. JTT 6'8 240lbs. Thomba 6'10. The way we switch on defense inevitably DH or someone is going to end up on one of those guys down low and it's an easy bucket or foul for the other team. Plus, Enaruna weighs like 220lbs. There is no way he can be a post defender against those types of players.

Every night won't be like last night though. Thankfully.

Mitch Lightfoot is 225.

And, it could be that a big team is the perfect team to go small against because maybe then can't play all their bigs as much.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:06 pm And, it could be that a big team is the perfect team to go small against because maybe then can't play all their bigs as much.

It's kicked our ass several times.

re: putting Dave in the right position

this is on our guards, as well as on Self

MG, at least twice last night, fed Dave the ball in the middle of three defenders. that’s not going to work no matter who the post player is

and i’m not advocating sitting Dave entirely, or even restricting his minutes, necessarily. i just think that he isn’t being used the way he needs to be in order for this team to play its best

Dave playing his best, stat wise, does not necessarily equal this team playing its best. i want this team to play its best, individual accolades be damned

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:17 pm re: putting Dave in the right position

this is on our guards, as well as on Self

MG, at least twice last night, fed Dave the ball in the middle of three defenders. that’s not going to work no matter who the post player is

Why do you think he made that forced pass?

I agree we should play our best team and not worry about individual stats. And like CnB says, more ball movement, and more player movement seem to be what we need. I think 4 guys standing around 1 big guy...with little movement is more the issue than any individual player or which combinations of players we play. We're not making the defense work hard enough to guard us.

But our bench production has been awful. I don't know how you can look what our bench players have done and assume they'll be better with more minutes. I think our unproductive bench is a bigger concern right now that McCormack.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:19 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:17 pm re: putting Dave in the right position

this is on our guards, as well as on Self

MG, at least twice last night, fed Dave the ball in the middle of three defenders. that’s not going to work no matter who the post player is

Why do you think he made that forced pass?

not sure about the one on the baseline, cuz there was a shooter floating behind him (CB, i think)

the one from the top of the key, if memory serves, happened when everyone else was just standing around

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:22 pm I agree we should play our best team and not worry about individual stats. And like CnB says, more ball movement, and more player movement seem to be what we need. I think 4 guys standing around 1 big guy...with little movement is more the issue than any individual player or which combinations of players we play. We're not making the defense work hard enough to guard us.

But our bench production has been awful. I don't know how you can look what our bench players have done and assume they'll be better with more minutes. I think our unproductive bench is a bigger concern right now that McCormack.

i can agree with both these points, lack of movement and shit bench productivity

wasn’t the juco kid like the best juco player in the country last year?

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:23 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:19 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:17 pm re: putting Dave in the right position

this is on our guards, as well as on Self

MG, at least twice last night, fed Dave the ball in the middle of three defenders. that’s not going to work no matter who the post player is

Why do you think he made that forced pass?

not sure about the one on the baseline, cuz there was a shooter floating behind him (CB, i think)

the one from the top of the key, if memory serves, happened when everyone else was just standing around

I'm thinking more globally.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:25 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:22 pm I agree we should play our best team and not worry about individual stats. And like CnB says, more ball movement, and more player movement seem to be what we need. I think 4 guys standing around 1 big guy...with little movement is more the issue than any individual player or which combinations of players we play. We're not making the defense work hard enough to guard us.

But our bench production has been awful. I don't know how you can look what our bench players have done and assume they'll be better with more minutes. I think our unproductive bench is a bigger concern right now that McCormack.

i can agree with both these points, lack of movement and shit bench productivity

wasn’t the juco kid like the best juco player in the country last year?

Best juco prospect.