Kansas Crimson

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:40 pm**

A. I don't deny there is an issue in the distribution of wealth and opportunity across America, specifically regarding those inequalities when it comes to race, but that has oh, so very little to do with students with full scholarships and compensation valued up to 150k to universities, hence why it's so shitty and asshole of you to pull the card out and go, "A HA! Got you!"

B. And you could neutralize the gif's by acknowledging you're kind of an asshole and/or pay towards hosting.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:41 pm**

defixione wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:38 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:58 am My interaction with these pages now comes with six colorful, animated .gif links at the top of every single post. What a weird bug in the code. Someone should look into this.
What am I missing? Animated gifs? Where?

You're spared. The changes are targeted to certain posters.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:43 pm**

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:17 pm At some point, you really need to deal with the very, very real distinction between (1) being called a racist (which has not happened), and (2) being asked to confront the obvious race/class/power issues that are simply a part of the NIL/pay for play conversation (which has happened).

Or, I guess, you can ignore that very, very real distinction. If that's more convenient to whatever it is your point ends up being.

One of the things that made atheltic scholarships a good thing was that it gave an opportunity to get a college education to students who wouldn't have otherwise gotten that chance.

That's still a very real thing. So, to flip that, and act like it's now exploitation, or worse, some form of institutional racism is a real disingenuous thing to do, and I'd argue it's almost completely untrue. And I cringe at the tacit assumption, that this group of students (largely poor often from underserved comuunities) have no interest in higher education and that their ONLY goal, or worse, their only option is to play sports professionally.

My perspective being a professor at a non-power 5 school biases my opinion. There are differences at Power 5 schools (for one thing becoming a professional athlete is a more realistic goal percentage-wise). But I think being a fan of a basketball power has also biased most of the fanbase here into thinking that everyone on a scholarship plays professionally at least for a while, often overseas. That just isn't the case when you get away from KU. For a ton....the scholarship is the thing....And it's an amazing opportunity. and it benefits mostly a similar demographic.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:45 pm**

that's a good post

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:46 pm**

pdub wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:40 pm A. I don't deny there is an issue in the distribution of wealth and opportunity across America, specifically regarding those inequalities when it comes to race, but that has oh, so very little to do with students with full scholarships and compensation valued up to 150k to universities, hence why it's so shitty and asshole of you to pull the card out and go, "A HA! Got you!"

B. And you could neutralize the gif's by acknowledging you're kind of an asshole and/or pay towards hosting.

A - lol

B - I believe I have? But if I haven't, sure direct me to where $10 should go. BUT, it's sort of weird that your B is a fairly explicit this-for-that thing.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:48 pm**

TDub wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:45 pm that's a good post

Agreed.

And that is coming from someone on "the other side" of the NIL argument.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:50 pm**

Your response to A is why the first part of B stands.
And 10 dollars is an insult to my value. I was running this site for free because I enjoyed it. Now im just after the money. Hopefully that won’t alter your enjoyment of things.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:50 pm**

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:43 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:17 pm At some point, you really need to deal with the very, very real distinction between (1) being called a racist (which has not happened), and (2) being asked to confront the obvious race/class/power issues that are simply a part of the NIL/pay for play conversation (which has happened).

Or, I guess, you can ignore that very, very real distinction. If that's more convenient to whatever it is your point ends up being.
One of the things that made atheltic scholarships a good thing was that it gave an opportunity to get a college education to students who wouldn't have otherwise gotten that chance.

That's still a very real thing. So, to flip that, and act like it's now exploitation, or worse, some form of institutional racism is a real disingenuous thing to do, and I'd argue it's almost completely untrue. And I cringe at the tacit assumption, that this group of students (largely poor often from underserved comuunities) have no interest in higher education and that their ONLY goal, or worse, their only option is to play sports professionally.

My perspective being a professor at a non-power 5 school biases my opinion. There are differences at Power 5 schools (for one thing becoming a professional athlete is a more realistic goal percentage-wise). But I think being a fan of a basketball power has also biased most of the fanbase here into thinking that everyone on a scholarship plays professionally at least for a while, often overseas. That just isn't the case when you get away from KU. For a ton....the scholarship is the thing....And it's an amazing opportunity. and it benefits mostly a similar demographic.

And nobody is saying that a scholarship and other cost of attendance stuff is not compensation. It's just not where the analysis stops.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:52 pm**

Withholding such a large portion of the value the athletes create is the exploitative part. Not too interested in rehashing that "F the NCAA" argument, but the point has been that the value has almost always been well beyond the cost of a scholarship, and that is being uncovered every single day. To pocket that part is what is unfair.

And again, no one in the entire world has argued that scholarships and the opportunity to earn a degree has zero value. It's a complete strawman by PhD who I do NOT view as being Anti-NIL.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:52 pm**

You’ve compared it to indentured servitude.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:53 pm**

The good news, since I think we all agree that right now it is out of hand, is that when guys like Bill Self and Nick Saban are coming out and saying this isn't working how it is supposed to, it means change will come.

I don't think "caps" on $$ will be possible because the courts will strike it down when it gets challenged as overreaching again...but they will absolutely have to figure out how to enforce the "pay for play" rules. And i think those situations will be fairly easy to identify. Some of the players or "agencies" are coming right out and saying it. When that happens those players should be deemed ineligible for college athletics.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:54 pm**

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:53 pm The good news, since I think we all agree that right now it is out of hand, is that when guys like Bill Self and Nick Saban are coming out and saying this isn't working how it is supposed to, it means change will come.

I don't think "caps" on $$ will be possible because the courts will strike it down when it gets challenged as overreaching again...but they will absolutely have to figure out how to enforce the "pay for play" rules. And i think those situations will be fairly easy to identify. Some of the players or "agencies" are coming right out and saying it. When that happens those players should be deemed ineligible for college athletics.

I do not think it is out of hand. Vast majority of schools are in the learning process, but not having large issues.

Agree with most of the 2nd paragraph--the growing pains created by the NCAA will require tweaks.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 12:58 pm**

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:54 pm
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:53 pm The good news, since I think we all agree that right now it is out of hand, is that when guys like Bill Self and Nick Saban are coming out and saying this isn't working how it is supposed to, it means change will come.

I don't think "caps" on $$ will be possible because the courts will strike it down when it gets challenged as overreaching again...but they will absolutely have to figure out how to enforce the "pay for play" rules. And i think those situations will be fairly easy to identify. Some of the players or "agencies" are coming right out and saying it. When that happens those players should be deemed ineligible for college athletics.
I do not think it is out of hand. Vast majority of schools are in the learning process, but not having large issues.

Agree with most of the 2nd paragraph--the growing pains created by the NCAA will require tweaks.

I think it is "out of hand" when a guy like Wong can say increase my NIL or I am leaving....and he likely won't be punished. That is the out of hand part.

I don't think it is "out of hand" just because guys are getting way more NIL money than they are truly worth. But who is to say what someone is "worth".

I do real estate appraisals. The vast majority of the time a property is "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 1:00 pm**

The issues are kind of being conflated, though. It's always been a better argument that schools giving out tuition, room/board, and cost of living provides (very arguably) fair compensation in exchange for athletic performances.

The argument that student athletes, by the mere nature of being an athlete and not a regular student, cannot make money off their own name just falls really flat on its face, especially in this country. That's just not right to keep people from doing that.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 1:06 pm**

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:58 pm
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:54 pm
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:53 pm The good news, since I think we all agree that right now it is out of hand, is that when guys like Bill Self and Nick Saban are coming out and saying this isn't working how it is supposed to, it means change will come.

I don't think "caps" on $$ will be possible because the courts will strike it down when it gets challenged as overreaching again...but they will absolutely have to figure out how to enforce the "pay for play" rules. And i think those situations will be fairly easy to identify. Some of the players or "agencies" are coming right out and saying it. When that happens those players should be deemed ineligible for college athletics.
I do not think it is out of hand. Vast majority of schools are in the learning process, but not having large issues.

Agree with most of the 2nd paragraph--the growing pains created by the NCAA will require tweaks.
I think it is "out of hand" when a guy like Wong can say increase my NIL or I am leaving....and he likely won't be punished. That is the out of hand part.

I don't think it is "out of hand" just because guys are getting way more NIL money than they are truly worth. But who is to say what someone is "worth".

I do real estate appraisals. The vast majority of the time a property is "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

The Wong story was apparently misreported, and even if not, just one example that pretty much everyone agreed was problematic. But more so on an individual level.

It gets problematic if hundreds or thousands of athletes are successfully holding out.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 1:10 pm**

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 1:06 pm
The Wong story was apparently misreported, and even if not, just one example that pretty much everyone agreed was problematic. But more so on an individual level.

It gets problematic if hundreds or thousands of athletes are successfully holding out.

You've got to punish the players breaking the rules imo. Doesn't matter to me if it is a few or a thousand. Breaking the rules must be punished or there is no reason to have rules.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 1:15 pm**

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 1:10 pm
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 1:06 pm
The Wong story was apparently misreported, and even if not, just one example that pretty much everyone agreed was problematic. But more so on an individual level.

It gets problematic if hundreds or thousands of athletes are successfully holding out.
You've got to punish the players breaking the rules imo. Doesn't matter to me if it is a few or a thousand. Breaking the rules must be punished or there is no reason to have rules.

That's fine. Just saying it has not risen to a level where it's out of control. It has gone pretty smoothly, but of course my closest exposure to it has been reading about KU athletes, and there hasn't been any issues.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 1:28 pm**

defixione wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:38 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:58 am My interaction with these pages now comes with six colorful, animated .gif links at the top of every single post. What a weird bug in the code. Someone should look into this.
What am I missing? Animated gifs? Where?

Pdub is mad that myself, fish and cnb won’t give him any money so every post has a gif saying “Donate Today” and it’s a link to this thread.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 1:39 pm**

It’s all about the money.
What else is there?

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2022 3:13 pm**

Cascadia wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 1:28 pm
defixione wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:38 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:58 am My interaction with these pages now comes with six colorful, animated .gif links at the top of every single post. What a weird bug in the code. Someone should look into this.
What am I missing? Animated gifs? Where?
Pdub is mad that myself, fish and cnb won’t give him any money so every post has a gif saying “Donate Today” and it’s a link to this thread.

i don’t know that donating has done much of anything to improve the site

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