Kansas Crimson

Bronny. Not playing tonight. Injured. Knee. Yet, they say they expect him to play Wednesday.
Load management?

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 5:44 pm Bronny. Not playing tonight. Injured. Knee. Yet, they say they expect him to play Wednesday.
Load management?

Bronny is years away from being a contributor (at best). There is really no reason to push it. His development is a long term thing. Back to backs don't make sense for him. It's summer league.

If we are being honest, it's more important for him to be healthy so he can run out of the tunnel with LeBron and play in garbage time.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:27 pm

mjl2 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:52 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 2:39 pm

More than I realized...(not a complete list)

Klay, Cole Anthony, Bol Bol, Darius Garland, Jerami Grant, Al Horford, Jaren Jackson Jr, Damontis Sabonis

I meant specifically the ones you referred to that outplayed their draft spot. Which a bunch of those guys did... I suppose all but Bol Bol. Horford maybe is right around what you expect for where he was drafted - unless you heavily factor in longevity.

Hell, even Bol Bol, at round 2 pick 44, probably has outperformed the guys picked at that same spot historically.

Oh, my bad, was going off memory and thinking he was a top 15 pick. Stupid brain.

mjl2 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:44 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:27 pm

mjl2 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:52 pm

I meant specifically the ones you referred to that outplayed their draft spot. Which a bunch of those guys did... I suppose all but Bol Bol. Horford maybe is right around what you expect for where he was drafted - unless you heavily factor in longevity.

Hell, even Bol Bol, at round 2 pick 44, probably has outperformed the guys picked at that same spot historically.

Oh, my bad, was going off memory and thinking he was a top 15 pick. Stupid brain.

I was thinking he was a first rounder too, until I looked it up.

Hauser just resigned with the Celtics.
I didn't see that coming - I thought the Creighton kid was his future replacement.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/406 ... st-century

Move Duncan to 2, Kobe to 3 and Steph to 4.
Ray Allen is too high - if Allen is 20th and Paul Pierce isn't on the list, something is wrong.
And, usually is the case with me, Westbrook is overrated.

of all the pics of Shaq, they pick one of him shooting a free throw

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 9:22 am https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/406 ... st-century

Move Duncan to 2, Kobe to 3 and Steph to 4.
Ray Allen is too high - if Allen is 20th and Paul Pierce isn't on the list, something is wrong.
And, usually is the case with me, Westbrook is overrated.

Agree about Allen. Same with Ginobli.

Harden and CP3 ahead of Westbrook is not something I agree with either. If Westbrook is overrated then Harden is too.

We've had this discussion so many times but it's ridiculous that you think Westbrook has had a better career than CP3. And just about every single person who writes about the NBA would agree that it's ridiculous.

CP3 higher PER.
Higher win shares ( by double ).
Higher FG%. FT%. 3PT%. eFG%. APG. SPG.
Westbrook has turned the ball almost 2* the rate as CP3 has.
9x All defense vs 0x All defense.

Russ is a better rebounder ( pad those stats at the free throw line my man ) and takes a lot more shots ( bad shots ).

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 10:47 am We've had this discussion so many times but it's ridiculous that you think Westbrook has had a better career than CP3. And just about every single person who writes about the NBA would agree that it's ridiculous.

CP3 higher PER.
Higher win shares ( by double ).
Higher FG%. FT%. 3PT%. eFG%. APG. SPG.
Westbrook has turned the ball almost 2* the rate as CP3 has.
9x All defense vs 0x All defense.

Russ is a better rebounder ( pad those stats at the free throw line my man ) and takes a lot more shots ( bad shots ).

I know.

I know that I shouldn't think Westbrook is better than CP3 based on the stat comparisons, but I do.

I do think CP3 defense is overrated. He was never a lockdown defender. He was just good at getting steals.

I guess you know more than 1000's of writers and broadcasters of the NBA over the years.

What metric are you using to determine why you think Westbrook has been a better player over his career than CP3?
Or is just an illy eye-test?

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:14 am I guess you know more than 1000's of writers and broadcasters of the NBA over the years.

Well, the ones that did the article we are discussing must be some of the not so great "writers and broadcasters" because that list sort of sucks.

We are talking about 2 hall of famers. It's not a super hot take to think Westbrook is better than CP3. Westbrook has some historic seasons on his resume averaging a triple double. We can discount it all we want because he tries too hard so his rebounds don't count or that he turns it over a lot (he does, and so do a lot of the other high usage superstars every season).

"I do think CP3 defense is overrated. He was never a lockdown defender. He was just good at getting steals."

"The All-Defensive Team is generally composed of ten players in two five-man lineups, a first and a second team. Voting is conducted by a panel of 123 writers and broadcasters. Prior to the 2013–14 NBA season, voting was performed by the NBA head coaches, who were restricted from voting for players on their own team."

And go looking for lists of top players in the NBA and i'll find you 10 of them with CP3 ranked higher for every 1 that has Westbrook for their careers.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:16 am What metric are you using to determine why you think Westbrook has been a better player over his career than CP3?
Or is just an illy eye-test?

I guess so.

I can't make a compelling argument based on stats, that's for sure. Other than triples doubles are cool and Westbrook did it for an entire season 4 times.

It sure just felt like that during the prime of CP3 career his teams never won. And I was never a fan of his attitude and whiny floppy nature. Maybe that's a me problem.

"that he turns it over a lot (he does, and so do a lot of the other high usage superstars every season)."

This is minimizing the significant amount of TO's Westbrook has had in his career.
He's literally the very best at turning it over.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:26 am
And go looking for lists of top players in the NBA and i'll find you 10 of them with CP3 ranked higher for every 1 that has Westbrook for their careers.

Absolutely. I am definitely in the minority here. I'm okay with that.

"It sure just felt like that during the prime of CP3 career his teams never won."

CP3 .642.
Russ .584.

CP3 playoffs .510.
Russ .475.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:30 am He's literally the very best at turning it over.

James Harden says hello?

In 2016/17 James Harden had 464 turnovers for the season. Don't think anyone has had over 400 in a season ever in history other than that.

Harden has lead the league in turnovers 6 times. Westbrook has 4 times. Westbrook does have more career turnovers so far. It'll end up close if Harden plays longer. They're probably the two most prolific turnover machines in NBA history I to imagine?

Side note: was surprised to see Paul Pierce lead the league in turnovers in 2003/04.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 11:33 am "It sure just felt like that during the prime of CP3 career his teams never won."

CP3 .642.
Russ .584.

CP3 playoffs .510.
Russ .475.

Cp3 has had a nice boost late in his career playing for Phoenix and GS. Which is why I said prime. I do not consider either of them to be in their prime now.