Kansas Crimson

isu is a better job than louisville. in every aspect.

Our most recognizable one and done seasons have ended in first weekend exits.

Henry.
Wiggins.
Oubre.
Dick.

Kudos to Otzy and the Clowns.
ISU? Last year on this date they lost to 11 seed Pitt by 18.

I don't really care what you (everyone on here), I, or my mother thinks is what's best for KU Basketball.
Amazing how quickly everyone second guesses (in hindsight), and people shit on a team that going in to this season most of us thought would be a #1 seed.
The same team that beat two teams that will be #1 seeds as well as Tennessee (2 or 3 seed) , Kentucky (3 or 4 seed), and Baylor (3 or 4 seed).

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:53 am NC State is a great example of why you want to keep conference tournament winners as auto berths.

I agree. 5 wins in 5 days. They deserve it. Great emotion shown by the players at the conclusion of the game.

and they will go out with a whimper in the first round.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:10 am Our most recognizable one and done seasons have ended in first weekend exits.

Henry.
Wiggins.
Oubre.
Dick.

Sure, but is it correlation or causation? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with the following summary fwiw, just for thought...

Xavier's team was 33-3 and lead by senior Sherron and junior Cole, and had twins, tyshawn, trob, etc....lots of NBA players on that team. I think we'd take that roster every single year. One of the best teams of the Self era regardless of fluky loss to Northern Iowa.

Wiggins team wasn't good. Fair assessment there. Not the way to build around two 1 and dones.

Oubre played 21mpg. Also Cliff Alexander on that team. Junior Perry. Sophomore Frank. That team won the big 12, but were unfortunately a big man or two away from being real contenders (even though they finished as a top 10 team)...or a year away if they'd have all stayed together. That team would have been great the following year.

Gradey was a perfect type of 1 and done in my opinion because his shooting made him immediately playable even if his defense wasn't great. We were a top 4 team last year who had a bad ending to the year. I'd take that team and be happy every year, I don't feel like that was a bad roster build at all.

Last year as we talked about was somewhat of a mirage as I don’t think we were as good as our ranking.

A top 10 but not top 4.
And then we lost our 2nd game.

Don’t know why you’re dismissing Oubre here bc he played 21 mpg. In fact it actually helps my argument that you don’t need one and done players if he only played 21 mpg.

I agree with 2010. Fluke.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:10 am Don’t know why you’re dismissing Oubre here bc he played 21 mpg. In fact it actually helps my argument that you don’t need one and done players if he only played 21 mpg.

I wasn't trying to dismiss Oubre. Truthfully Cliff was more hyped as the 1 and done recruit coming in (iirc), and was a bigger reason for that season's limitations. But that team wasn't ready regardless. Frank was still too young. Graham too young. Svi too young. And Perry was becoming awesome, but still had his issues. I am happy with the roster construction that season. We were just a year (and impermissible benefit scandal) away.

And in todays environment we get year 2 of Cliff, and avoid him sitting out games from late February until the end of year 1.


Side note: didn't remember Oubre was a top 5-7ish recruit. I was thinking teens.

I always forget about Cliff. I did not like him.

But even throwing in Cliff as a one and done makes your argument even worse…we don’t need one and done talent to win….we don’t need top 10 recruits to win.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:38 am But even throwing in Cliff as a one and done makes your argument even worse…we don’t need one and done talent to win….we don’t need top 10 recruits to win.

Maybe we don't. Plenty of schools do it without top 10 recruits. But the schools most like us (Duke UNC UK) get top 10-15 recruits. And historically during the Self era, so have we.

And in today's world, the Cliff and Diallo types stay for another year....and then I think you can really win with them.

We also need the players you want (and me too btw), the DHs, Kjs, Franks, Devontes, Och, CB, etc. That are diamonds in the rough and develop over time.

I think it's a mixture of both.

I think our recruiting hasn't been great the last 4 or 5 years. I think some of those misses are coming to show their head now, similar to how you mentioned last year being somewhat of a mirage with great results but obvious issues.


Since 2013 we've had a lot of players ranked in the top 15...Wiggins 1, Selden 12, Embiid 13, Cliff 4, Oubre 5, Diallo 4, Jackson 1, Grimes 13, (Dotson just misses at 21)...and then it kind of slows down......

In 2019 our highest rated recruit is Jalen at 49. Which ends up being a great get.

2020 Bryce Thompson is 20. He doesn't work out. That's a miss.

2021 Clemence is the highest at 73. That's acceptable? Not to me.

2022 Gradey highest at 21. Great get. Then we sort of show signs of life on the recruiting trail with Udeh at 32 and Rice at 37 and Zuby at 47.....and none of them are still here. Would you rather have 1 year of an Oubre or Diallo or 1 year of a Rice or Udeh?

2023 Elmarko at 20 has been disappointing, but can absolutely turn it around if he sticks it out. Furphy at 35 is another great get.

We're not far off, but there was a noticeable drop off in recruiting. Has it necessarily translated to a difference in wins and losses? I'm not sure, I'd have to look. Partly because we've had huge hits in Frank Devonte Ochai and Braun.

Both national championship teams had multiple NBA players. 08 had like 5 or so. 22 had 3....and the 2019-2020 team had like 5 also, although not really fair to call CB what he ended being, jalen didn't play, and och wasn't senior och, so 2 is the more accurate number there.

I don't know the magic number, but this team isn't talented enough. And we've sort of sold our soul on some of these transfer like Dedric and HD and it hasn't played out great. The last few years the roster management/roster building/talent evaluation hasn't been up to Self standards.

I think we are better served at getting the guys in Jalen’s range and retaining them for multiple years.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:32 am I think we are better served at getting the guys in Jalen’s range and retaining them for multiple years.

if you can keep them from transferring away when someone else offers them starter minutes and a better NIL deal

TDub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:38 am

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:32 am I think we are better served at getting the guys in Jalen’s range and retaining them for multiple years.

if you can keep them from transferring away when someone else offers them starter minutes and a better NIL deal

Right.
Not easy.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:39 am

TDub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:38 am

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:32 am I think we are better served at getting the guys in Jalen’s range and retaining them for multiple years.

if you can keep them from transferring away when someone else offers them starter minutes and a better NIL deal

Right.
Not easy.

Nigel fuckin Pack got almost a mil. I keep going back to that as the...."how? how do you build a team with this shit" moment. how do you develop anything?

I wonder if UConn schedules practices around NIL events?

Let's see....
5-13 in a poor conference 16-19 (will be 17-19 if they win today) overall Temple might make the tournament.

13-7 in a decent conference 20-12 overall (with a 15 point win against #1 overall seed UConn) Seton Hall may not make the tournament.
13-7 in a good conference 23-10 overall Virginia may not make the tournament.
13-7 in a decent conference 24-10 overall Colorado may not make the tournament.
14-4 in a fair conference 25-8 overall Florida Atlantic may not make the tournament.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:09 am isu is a better job than louisville. in every aspect.

coming from fans of a program whose #1 selling point is history and tradition, really? that's at least 1 aspect, i'm sure i can name a few more - you don't have to play KS twice every year, its in a basketball-crazy state, etc. louisville is a way better job.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:28 pm

hoopla wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:26 pm

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:09 am isu is a better job than louisville. in every aspect.

coming from fans of a program whose #1 selling point is history and tradition, really? that's at least 1 aspect, i'm sure i can name a few more - you don't have to play KS twice every year, its in a basketball-crazy state, etc. louisville is a way better job.

did you mean to yell at me DC? please don't yell at me, DC.