COVID-19 - On the Ground

[Deleted User 863]

to date, has any non covid emergency been turned away due to capacity here in the greatest country on earth? no.

I just don't understand the over the top fear mongering or silly ideas about what to do with non vaccinated people.

Just stay away from non vaccinated people if you're worried. That's what i do. I don't go to Lolapolooza or shit like that. Obviously there are situations like gutter mentioned about work where you can't avoid poeple and those get tricky. Which is why i support employers requiring the vaccine or if they don't i support their uncomfortable employees to quit and find another job. Nobody needs to be forced to do anything. Protect the vulnerable. If you aren't vaccinated i hope assisted living facilities don't allow you to be a visitor to see their residents.

I will not be seeing any of my unvaccinated family over the holidays. Oh well. I couldn't care less about them at this point. I just think people can take a lot of this responsibility on themselves in many situations instead of needing the governement to try to make all these stupid rules that are impossible to enforce.

Why should the people doing the responsible thing be the ones not allowed to go to a concert or sporting event?

Why are we catering to the lazy, scared, idiots who refuse to be vaccinated?

If you truly want people to take responsibility for themselves you'd simply want everyone to get vaccinnated.

Forget about forced vaccinations for a second. The first thing we NEED to do, is to stop pretending the choice to not be vaccinated is a valid one. Yes, you have a choice, but this is a situation where one choice is clearly right and the other is wrong. We need to stop giving credence to the notion that this choice is somehow a subjective one. The people who don't get vaccinated are making a bad choice. Their making this situation worse than it needs to be. They're intentionally choosing to put people at a higher risk than what is necessary.

If a concert or sports team wants to require proof of vaccination that it totally ok. I support that....and if the Chiefs organization (or whoever) decides they don't want to require proof of vaccination then i support people not attending. It shouldn't be decided by the government which businesses and activities have to require it.

I don't see any of this as catering to unvaccinated.

I want all people to get vaccinated.

I do NOT think choosing not to get vaccinated is a valid choice. It's a stupid choice.

[Deleted User 863]

Unvaccinated people need to start suffering real-world consequences. I'm all in favor of a vaccine passport, at least short-term.

Want to fly? Sorry, have to be vaxed.

What to attend the baseball game? Sorry, have to be vaxed.

Want to eat in the restaurant? Sorry, have to be vaxed.

Sucks, doesn't it? Too bad!

It is the right of all those businesses you mentioned to require proof of vaccination. I support that. But they shouldn't be forced to require it. And if you don't like their policy then don't support that business. I wouldn't.

[CrimsonNBlue]

It shouldn't be decided by the government which businesses and activities have to require it.

I have my own opinion on this, but to try and understand counterarguments, why not?

[sdoyel]

Unvaccinated people need to start suffering real-world consequences. I'm all in favor of a vaccine passport, at least short-term.

Want to fly? Sorry, have to be vaxed.

What to attend the baseball game? Sorry, have to be vaxed.

Want to eat in the restaurant? Sorry, have to be vaxed.

Sucks, doesn't it? Too bad!

It is the right of all those businesses you mentioned to require proof of vaccination. I support that. But they shouldn't be forced to require it. And if you don't like their policy then don't support that business. I wouldn't.

How do you feel about state governments blocking mask mandates for public schools? Irresponsible, don't you say?

[zsn]

I think the effective way to at least dramatically decrease the rate of vaccine hesitancy is send out a disclaimer, change in terms of service, like the credit card companies do. Essentially it would state the following:
1. Congratulations, you are eligible to obtain one of the Covid vaccines which have received emergency use authorization
2. If you have not yet been vaccinated this is your notice to be vaccinated within 30 days at one of the following locations (list of nearby places). If you are unable to travel to the vaccine place please contact ### and transportation will be arranged for you
3. If by the end of the 30-day window you remain unvaccinated your coverage for Covid-related treatment will be declined and all costs will be borne by you, out-of-pocket.

In order not to single out one disease they can make it apply to all diseases for which vaccines are commonly available. In fact if Congress wants to get serious they can easily add this language to the ACA (about preexisting conditions) and authorize private companies (insurers) to watch out for their bottom line. I never thought I could say one good thing about private health insurance….now I have one good thing I can say. This is a solution they can be part of. Medicare should follow

Starting to look at least somewhat reasonable, doesn’t it

[Deleted User 863]

It shouldn't be decided by the government which businesses and activities have to require it.

I have my own opinion on this, but to try and understand counterarguments, why not?

Because those businesses are capable of deciding what their policy is.

And because their customers are capable of deciding if they want to frequent establishments that have policies they don't agree with.

[CrimsonNBlue]

It shouldn't be decided by the government which businesses and activities have to require it.

I have my own opinion on this, but to try and understand counterarguments, why not?

Because those businesses are capable of deciding what their policy is.

And because their customers are capable of deciding if they want to frequent establishments that have policies they don't agree with.

Thanks. That is basically the response I expected.


Public health is a compelling government interest.

[TDub]

I think the effective way to at least dramatically decrease the rate of vaccine hesitancy is send out a disclaimer, change in terms of service, like the credit card companies do. Essentially it would state the following:
1. Congratulations, you are eligible to obtain one of the Covid vaccines which have received emergency use authorization
2. If you have not yet been vaccinated this is your notice to be vaccinated within 30 days at one of the following locations (list of nearby places). If you are unable to travel to the vaccine place please contact ### and transportation will be arranged for you
3. If by the end of the 30-day window you remain unvaccinated your coverage for Covid-related treatment will be declined and all costs will be borne by you, out-of-pocket.

In order not to single out one disease they can make it apply to all diseases for which vaccines are commonly available. In fact if Congress wants to get serious they can easily add this language to the ACA (about preexisting conditions) and authorize private companies (insurers) to watch out for their bottom line. I never thought I could say one good thing about private health insurance….now I have one good thing I can say. This is a solution they can be part of. Medicare should follow

Starting to look at least somewhat reasonable, doesn’t it

Lemme check...


Nope. Its still stupid.

[Deleted User 863]

Unvaccinated people need to start suffering real-world consequences. I'm all in favor of a vaccine passport, at least short-term.

Want to fly? Sorry, have to be vaxed.

What to attend the baseball game? Sorry, have to be vaxed.

Want to eat in the restaurant? Sorry, have to be vaxed.

Sucks, doesn't it? Too bad!

It is the right of all those businesses you mentioned to require proof of vaccination. I support that. But they shouldn't be forced to require it. And if you don't like their policy then don't support that business. I wouldn't.

How do you feel about state governments blocking mask mandates for public schools? Irresponsible, don't you say?

I think it's very irresponsible. Yes. Absolutely.

I also think people have the freedom to choose to not send their kid to those public schools that aren't requiring masks. I certainly wouldn't send mine there.

[TDub]

Vaccinea arent preventing the spread of the disease, they are preventing severity of the disease. Banning non vaccinated people from venues does not equal no transmission of the virus.

The vaccinated are going on to carry a similar viral load of the virus around everywhere they go as the unvaccinated.

[Deleted User 863]

I have my own opinion on this, but to try and understand counterarguments, why not?

Because those businesses are capable of deciding what their policy is.

And because their customers are capable of deciding if they want to frequent establishments that have policies they don't agree with.

Thanks. That is basically the response I expected.


Public health is a compelling government interest.

Yes public health is. Agreed.

But nobody is being forced to go to a Bulls game if they don't want to. People are choosing to be there. If it's not safe they should be smart enough to choose not to be there.

[Deleted User 863]

Vaccinea arent preventing the spread of the disease, they are preventing severity of the disease. Banning non vaccinated people from venues does not equal no transmission of the virus.

Minor details.

[MICHHAWK]

How do you feel about state governments blocking mask mandates for public schools?

i do not think the young people should be wearing the mask in school, when the upcoming school year starts.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Because those businesses are capable of deciding what their policy is.

And because their customers are capable of deciding if they want to frequent establishments that have policies they don't agree with.

Thanks. That is basically the response I expected.


Public health is a compelling government interest.

Yes public health is. Agreed.

But nobody is being forced to go to a Bulls game if they don't want to. People are choosing to be there. If it's not safe they should be smart enough to choose not to be there.

Essentially, protect this contrived right to choose not to get vaccinated over all else.

Not to mention, whether or not you choose to go to that Bulls game, a full capacity Bulls game with many unvaccinated is still a major public health concern.

[TDub]

Thanks. That is basically the response I expected.


Public health is a compelling government interest.

Yes public health is. Agreed.

But nobody is being forced to go to a Bulls game if they don't want to. People are choosing to be there. If it's not safe they should be smart enough to choose not to be there.

Essentially, protect this contrived right to choose not to get vaccinated over all else.

Not to mention, whether or not you choose to go to that Bulls game, a full capacity Bulls game with many unvaccinated is still a major public health concern.

Again. According to the CDC Vaccinated people are carrying a similar viral load of the virus and transmitting it just as easily as non vaccinated. Its not just non vaccinated that are a public health concern..it is quantities of people in small spaces that is continuing the climb

[pdub]

"protect this contrived right to choose"

Yes.
So very contrived.
People being able to choose.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Yes public health is. Agreed.

But nobody is being forced to go to a Bulls game if they don't want to. People are choosing to be there. If it's not safe they should be smart enough to choose not to be there.

Essentially, protect this contrived right to choose not to get vaccinated over all else.

Not to mention, whether or not you choose to go to that Bulls game, a full capacity Bulls game with many unvaccinated is still a major public health concern.

Again. According to the CDC Vaccinated people are carrying a similar viral load of the virus and transmitting it just as easily as non vaccinated. Its not just non vaccinated that are a public health concern..it is quantities of people in small spaces that is continuing the climb

It's a fair point, but I am mostly just trying to understand illy's logic why the government should not help enforce mandates.

But to respond, I think the goal is to get somewhere near herd immunity--it seems that incentives are very much needed.

[TDub]

Essentially, protect this contrived right to choose not to get vaccinated over all else.

Not to mention, whether or not you choose to go to that Bulls game, a full capacity Bulls game with many unvaccinated is still a major public health concern.

Again. According to the CDC Vaccinated people are carrying a similar viral load of the virus and transmitting it just as easily as non vaccinated. Its not just non vaccinated that are a public health concern..it is quantities of people in small spaces that is continuing the climb

It's a fair point, but I am mostly just trying to understand illy's logic why the government should not help enforce mandates.

But to respond, I think the goal is to get somewhere near herd immunity--it seems that incentives are very much needed.

Ive been over this in one of these threads. Somewhere.

The amount of civil liberties willfully surrendered, fueled by fear, in the post 9/11 "war on terror" was frightening and it set a dangerous precedent

This is tracking the same path with even a larger swath of liberties surrendered to the govt. It will further advance the precedent that the government can use fear to seize whatever they want from citizens.

Once gone, those abilities/choices/liberties are nearly impossible to retrieve.

[sdoyel]

Yes public health is. Agreed.

But nobody is being forced to go to a Bulls game if they don't want to. People are choosing to be there. If it's not safe they should be smart enough to choose not to be there.

Essentially, protect this contrived right to choose not to get vaccinated over all else.

Not to mention, whether or not you choose to go to that Bulls game, a full capacity Bulls game with many unvaccinated is still a major public health concern.

Again. According to the CDC Vaccinated people are carrying a similar viral load of the virus and transmitting it just as easily as non vaccinated. Its not just non vaccinated that are a public health concern..it is quantities of people in small spaces that is continuing the climb

But it's the .0004% or whatever of vaccinated individuals that are even carrying the virus, correct? Do the math. 165+ million vaccinated, .0004% breakthrough infections.

This is an unfair and totally misleading comparison.

[Deleted User 89]

i don’t feel at all like my civil liberties are any different than they were prior to 9/11

i live the same life now that i did then

actually, i feel like i have more liberty now than i did then