COVID-19 numbers

[twocoach]

You do realize that is literally almost impossible for a large portion of our population, right?

Spoken like a middle or upper middle class white man for sure.

I know you mean well, and I agree with you in theory on a lot of things, but sometimes it is very apparent that you are from a mostly white and probably mostly middle class area. I know you try to see things from others perspective on some/many issues, but inner city low income minorities/low income people in general of any race and poor rural individuals just don't have the ability to have 6 months of all living expenses in savings. Hell, a large portion of our country doesn't even have ANY retirement savings. It is hard for anyone to relate completely to others, so I am not trying to be critical, but that comment about savings was a little tone deaf and unrealistic for a large portion of our country that don't look like you (physically and financially).

And tbh, I certainly don't have 6 months of expenses in savings...granted I've got credit I can use and I've got retirement/investments accounts I could steal from (some with penalty of course) if it truly came to that to feed my family, but that is simply not reality for many people.

Bullshit.

It's not impossible at all. I lived for years off shitty tips at the restaurants I worked at and managed to save money despite making shit money.

Once we moved past near paycheck to paycheck living, my wife and I continued to make sacrifices to save for exactly these types of events. We chose to put money towards two extra house payments a year and now we have no mortgage to worry about.
You just have to make the sacrifices necessary to live within your means. THAT is what people seem to find "impossible". I could hundreds of dollars a month in bullshit unnecessary expenses out of virtually everyone's lives.

The only scenarios that makes it impossible is having kids you cannot afford or an unplanned accident or medical expense.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

I work in real estate so I see what land lords charge for rent in low income areas. There are statistics that show what various incomes are in certain areas. It is simple math that for many it is impossible to have 6months of all living expenses saved up...now, I am not saying that is "right", I am just pointing out reality.

Its also reality that many people have kids "they can't afford" by your standards...like 25%+ of the population would be my conservative estimate...again, not saying that is "right", but it is reality.

Unplanned accidents and unplanned medical expenses are also reality... and the segment of the population we are referencing are likely the same segment of the population who don't have access to affordable Healthcare.

Just something to think about. Your lived experiences are "everyone's" experiences or reality. Some people don't have the luxury or ability to do what you've done. You are a 2 income household. Both with college degrees I am assuming. Both likely from 2 parent households. Who likely didn't have children before marriage. Statistics show that isn't reality for many of the people who don't have 6 months of all living expenses in savings.

You'd probably be shocked at how many people don't even have a checking account....or how many kids don't know where there next meal will come from at various points throughout the year.

You're sort of inadvertently doing the old "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" thing that Republicans get slammed for....it just isn't reality for a segment of our populatation as far as 6 months of expenses in a savings account unfortunately.

Enlighten me as to your guess to the percentage of the US that doesn't have a checking account.

[ChalkRocker]

Ok, so who's walrus?

Seems like it's....

...damb!!...

....just bit my tongue soooo hard...

[TDub]

Bullshit.

It's not impossible at all. I lived for years off shitty tips at the restaurants I worked at and managed to save money despite making shit money.

Once we moved past near paycheck to paycheck living, my wife and I continued to make sacrifices to save for exactly these types of events. We chose to put money towards two extra house payments a year and now we have no mortgage to worry about.
You just have to make the sacrifices necessary to live within your means. THAT is what people seem to find "impossible". I could hundreds of dollars a month in bullshit unnecessary expenses out of virtually everyone's lives.

The only scenarios that makes it impossible is having kids you cannot afford or an unplanned accident or medical expense.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

I work in real estate so I see what land lords charge for rent in low income areas. There are statistics that show what various incomes are in certain areas. It is simple math that for many it is impossible to have 6months of all living expenses saved up...now, I am not saying that is "right", I am just pointing out reality.

Its also reality that many people have kids "they can't afford" by your standards...like 25%+ of the population would be my conservative estimate...again, not saying that is "right", but it is reality.

Unplanned accidents and unplanned medical expenses are also reality... and the segment of the population we are referencing are likely the same segment of the population who don't have access to affordable Healthcare.

Just something to think about. Your lived experiences are "everyone's" experiences or reality. Some people don't have the luxury or ability to do what you've done. You are a 2 income household. Both with college degrees I am assuming. Both likely from 2 parent households. Who likely didn't have children before marriage. Statistics show that isn't reality for many of the people who don't have 6 months of all living expenses in savings.

You'd probably be shocked at how many people don't even have a checking account....or how many kids don't know where there next meal will come from at various points throughout the year.

You're sort of inadvertently doing the old "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" thing that Republicans get slammed for....it just isn't reality for a segment of our populatation as far as 6 months of expenses in a savings account unfortunately.

Enlighten me as to your guess to the percentage of the US that doesn't have a checking account.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... anked.html

https://apnews.com/8b2b93d4e9474c418853 ... %20account.

[TDub]

You should try google sometime. Its pretty handy, you may even be able to google techniques for taking your head out of your ass

[PhDhawk]

You should try google sometime. Its pretty handy, you may even be able to google techniques for taking your head out of your ass

It's way too far up in there.

[Deleted User 310]

I haven't clicked your links yet...

I'm going to guess 23% don't have a checking account or savings account... if they break it out by race I'd guess African Americans % is significantly higher than white Americans %...

Now I will click the links....

[Deleted User 310]

My terminology was incorrect as far an unbanked and/or underbanked household... which threw my guess a little off from what I remember seeing.

He might also want do some research on how there is bank scarcity in poor areas and the ways that can/does negatively impacts those neighborhoods/areas...thats why they have this thing called the Community Reinvestment Act (iirc) which banks have to monitor and report to the FDIC showing they are not redlining certain areas and/or races. If they are lending to a disproportionate % of non-minorities in their area they can get in trouble, especially if they are denying credit opportunities to minorities with similar or superior credit characteristics.

https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/

That's the actual fdic link.

[Deleted User 310]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bankra ... -2019/amp/

Quick link to the amount of americans that have 6 months of financial reserves...

Only 18% have 6 months of reserves.

28% have NO financial reserves.




https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/12/system- ... vings.html

Above link is about retirement savings or lack thereof.

[Sparko]

Sentenced to death while awaiting arraignment. What a grand old party.

[twocoach]

You should try google sometime. Its pretty handy, you may even be able to google techniques for taking your head out of your ass

I already knew the answer of how many people don't have a checking account. The systems I support at work are for our debit and credit card authorizations and fraud prevention. It hovers in the 6.5-7.5% range, depending on who did the estimate. A number that is far from "shocking".

I was just curious to see what Illy's guess was.

To prove my original point, the number that should actually be shocking is that an estimated 45% of people have NO money in savings. Yes, a percentage of them cannot due to their unfortunate situation, but the people who could but didn't qere at a much higher risk of financial disaster if they lost their job during this pandemic.

Hopefully a positive that comes of this awful mess is that people better prepare themselves. Reevaluate the vulnerability of their jobs. Save more. Waste less. Figure out more ways to do things remotely. The people and companies that do an honest evaluation of themselves and make the tough changes needed to be better equipped to handle events such as this will be stronger for it moving forward.

[twocoach]

My terminology was incorrect as far an unbanked and/or underbanked household... which threw my guess a little off from what I remember seeing.

He might also want do some research on how there is bank scarcity in poor areas and the ways that can/does negatively impacts those neighborhoods/areas...thats why they have this thing called the Community Reinvestment Act (iirc) which banks have to monitor and report to the FDIC showing they are not redlining certain areas and/or races. If they are lending to a disproportionate % of non-minorities in their area they can get in trouble, especially if they are denying credit opportunities to minorities with similar or superior credit characteristics.

https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/

That's the actual fdic link.

There are also fully digital-only banks available to anyone with internet access to increase options to folks who do not have banks near them or for folks who prefer that. We're in the process of standing one up now.

[twocoach]

I haven't clicked your links yet...

I'm going to guess 23% don't have a checking account or savings account... if they break it out by race I'd guess African Americans % is significantly higher than white Americans %...

Now I will click the links....

You said a checking account. Thats dramatically different. You can get by without a savings account way easier.

[Deleted User 289]

Here is something for Illini and twocoach to ponder.
How many Americans live in "poverty"? How many Americans have a bank account (savings and/or checking)?

[Deleted User 310]

I haven't clicked your links yet...

I'm going to guess 23% don't have a checking account or savings account... if they break it out by race I'd guess African Americans % is significantly higher than white Americans %...

Now I will click the links....

You said a checking account. Thats dramatically different. You can get by without a savings account way easier.

If we are arguing just to argue today then I'll take a pass and let someone else in on the "fun".

Stats were provided to debunk your original statement that "most people are capable of having 6months of financial reserves"....you've now regurgitated 2 of those stats as your own thinking you're proving your point. Read the links we provided if you want. Or don't. I was only trying to provide some perspective that just because your personal anecdotal evidence leads you to believe that because you saved enough to not have a mortgage and have 6 months resrves doesn't mean that's a reality for everyone else. Remember, you were blaming the poor people who don't have financial reserves for rushing to open. My anecdotal evidence in my area has lead me to believe that for every poor person rushing to get back to work there is also a rich business owner rushing to get their business back open so they can keep making money. It isn't just the people "without 6 months of financial reserves" rushing to open.

The 7% of people without checking accounts at all, plus the other 16-18% or so who are "underbanked", plus the % of people who have NO reserves at all, plus the % of people who barely have ANY retirement savings, was ONLY provided to help show you that YOUR reality unfortunately isn't reality for many other people.

[Deleted User 310]

Here is something for Illini and twocoach to ponder.
How many Americans live in "poverty"? How many Americans have a bank account (savings and/or checking)?

more in poverty for sure.

....but those people should be capable of having 6 months of reserves so they don't "rush to reopen" because twocoach doesn't have a mortgage and has 6 months of financial reserves, and that proves its possible for everyone.

[twocoach]

I haven't clicked your links yet...

I'm going to guess 23% don't have a checking account or savings account... if they break it out by race I'd guess African Americans % is significantly higher than white Americans %...

Now I will click the links....

You said a checking account. Thats dramatically different. You can get by without a savings account way easier.

Arguing to argue. I'll take a pass today.

Stats were provided to debunk your original statement that "most people are capable of having 6months of financial reserves"....you've now regurgitated 2 of those stats as your own thinking you're proving your point. Read the links we provided if you want. Or don't. I was only trying to provide some perspective that just because your personal anecdotal evidence leads you to believe that because you saved enough to not have a mortgage and have 6 months resrves doesn't mean that's a reality for everyone else. Remember, you were blaming the poor people who don't have financial reserves for rushing to open. My anecdotal evidence in my area has lead me to believe that for every poor person rushing to get back to work there is also a rich business owner rushing to get their business back open so they can keep making money. It isn't just the people "without 6 months of financial reserves" rushing to open.

The 7% of people without checking accounts at all, plus the other 16-18% or so who are "underbanked", plus the % of people who have NO reserves at all, plus the % of people who barely have ANY retirement savings, was ONLY provided to help show you that YOUR reality unfortunately isn't reality for many other people.

Perhaps you and I suffer from the same affliction. "Most people are capable of having 6months of financial reserves" is not a statement that I have made at all, let alone a direct quote. So obviously my efforts to be brief have resulted in my not being clear.

There are a number of folks in this country who are perfectly capable of saving more that the zero that they have. That 45% of our nation has zero savings should be shocking. 45% of our country should not be that close to financial disaster.

[twocoach]

Here is something for Illini and twocoach to ponder.
How many Americans live in "poverty"? How many Americans have a bank account (savings and/or checking)?

more in poverty for sure.

....but those people should be capable of having 6 months of reserves so they don't "rush to reopen" because twocoach doesn't have a mortgage and has 6 months of financial reserves, and that proves its possible for everyone.

Again, not my point at all. Many people could have cut some expenses out of their lives and put some money into savings if they chose to. I could find a wasted $100 a month in the lives of the vast majority of the 45% of people with zero savings. $1,200 a year piles up quick if you have the self discipline to consider it unavailable.

[TDub]

There it is again. If theyd just be more like me.



I dont disagree with you that mich money is wasted....but I disagree with your approach and your original premise. Also, as i have been told over and over again, wasted to me is not wasted to everyone.

[Deleted User 310]

Perhaps you and I suffer from the same affliction. "Most people are capable of having 6months of financial reserves" is not a statement that I have made at all, let alone a direct quote. So obviously my efforts to be brief have resulted in my not being clear.

There are a number of folks in this country who are perfectly capable of saving more that the zero that they have. That 45% of our nation has zero savings should be shocking. 45% of our country should not be that close to financial disaster.

Your statements weren't brief, but I apologize if I took them the wrong way. They're below if you forgot what you said....

Oh, and if everyone had actually done what fimancial advisors have been telling us to do forever (keep at least 6 months of your full household expenses in savings) then more folks would be able to be patient and let this thing run its course.

But instead some folks choose year upgrades to the latest iPhone, seventeen different streaming services they dont use, a gym membership they don't use, too much car, too much house, too much eating out, the list is endless.

And when they missed their second paycheck, they were totally fucked. Panic over money causes people to do stupid shit, like protest for the right to subject yourself to a deadly virus as soon as possible.

Bullshit.

It's not impossible at all. I lived for years off shitty tips at the restaurants I worked at and managed to save money despite making shit money.

Once we moved past near paycheck to paycheck living, my wife and I continued to make sacrifices to save for exactly these types of events. We chose to put money towards two extra house payments a year and now we have no mortgage to worry about.
You just have to make the sacrifices necessary to live within your means. THAT is what people seem to find "impossible". I could hundreds of dollars a month in bullshit unnecessary expenses out of virtually everyone's lives.

The only scenarios that makes it impossible is having kids you cannot afford or an unplanned accident or medical expense.

Either way, I think we are getting off track. No big deal. There is plenty of blame to go around on who/why we are "rushing to reopen"....i personally am not seeing the people who should have more reserves being the main culprits of rushing to reopen in my area..especially because many are getting more in unemployment with the added monthly bonus that runs thru July than they even make working their full time job...but again that's anecdotal evidence. Are there individual salon workers rushing? Sure. I know a few personally. I also know the owners of the largest salon in my city were rushing. Same with many restaurants owned by people living in 500k+ homes with plenty of financial reserves. Greed was driving those decisions, not lack of financial reserves.

I simply felt you were blaming the wrong people. No big deal. Plenty of blame to go around. From trump, down to the individuals who refuse to wear masks.

[twocoach]

There it is again. If theyd just be more like me.



I dont disagree with you that mich money is wasted....but I disagree with your approach and your original premise. Also, as i have been told over and over again, wasted to me is not wasted to everyone.

So its not a problem that 45% of Americans have zero savings?!?

This has nothing to do with "be like me". This is me trying to have a conversation about how to figure out how we as a society could better survive another year like 2020.

We as every day citizens cannot pass legislation to have bigger stockpiles of emergency supplies. We cannot coordinate with the WHO and health officials around the world to build better monitoring and notification procedures. All we can do is protect ourselves and our families.

Good grief. Never in my life did I think "people should evaluate their expenditures and their jobs to see if we could be better prepared for a crazy year of disasters" would be so argued against.