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Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:28 am
by CrimsonNBlue
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:22 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:08 am
Why Devonte' went solo on the ball.
Malik Newman says hello.
Huh? Malik barely touched the ball. Garrett was much more of a PG in 2020 than Malik was in 2018--should have gone after that one.
Malik was so much not a PG that Devonte' had like 20 games where he played 40 minutes.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:28 am
by ousdahl
Dave and Dok both starting was more a "best 5 out there" thing, and even then, it lasted all of like 2 games.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:30 am
by ousdahl
and yea, I remember Malik being pretty explicitly off-the-ball.
In fact, if he DID have ball skills, he woulda had a much better shot at the league.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:31 am
by CrimsonNBlue
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:26 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:14 am
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:09 am
I dunno if we see a proper "two bigs" lineup much, short of getting some freak show of an uber-athlete big who can play on the perimeter too - in which case, is he even a "big," or just a big wing?
but yeah, two ballhandlers.
If last year was any indication tho, Self will play only one "small" guard if the wings are serviceable ballhandlers to go with it. It wasn't like we'd clear out every possession and get the ball to Dajuan to walk it up every possession. Jalen, CB, Och were all able to bring the ball up the court too. This helps when the offensive scheme is to run.
This year, Jalen will once again start a lot of fast breaks. McC should be able to too, right? And the maybe even Dick and/or Rice too.
Maybe we can run, or run faster, with Yes as the other guard, but that would also mean the smallest backcourt Self has ever really played here.
2 big offense is dead for the foreseeable future. Stubborn Self even said so like 3-4 years ago.
He tried playing Dave/Mitch and Dok together.
He has said KJ and Clemence can/will play together.
All of like 4 minutes total in a situational at the end of blowouts? That means he loves it?
KJ is not a big. If KJ is a big, then so is Wilson. But that's not the point at all. We haven't run 2 big offense since Perry Ellis at the latest. Our offense doesn't even remotely resemble what we ran in the first half of Self's tenure.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:33 am
by Deleted User 863
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:28 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:22 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:08 am
Why Devonte' went solo on the ball.
Malik Newman says hello.
Huh? Malik barely touched the ball. Garrett was much more of a PG in 2020 than Malik was in 2018--should have gone after that one.
Malik was so much not a PG that Devonte' had like 20 games where he played 40 minutes.
Nobody called Malik a PG, or mentioned Self liking 2 PGs. I said 2 ballhandlers.
Malik handled the ball plenty. He was a guard. Not a wing. 20.8 usage %.
Revisionist history. That was a 2 ball handler lineup.
Frank played a lot of close to 40min games with Devonte next to him. Does that mean Devonte doesn't count as a ball handler that year? I don't think so. Devonte played 20 40min games because he was a NPOY candidate and that team played a tight rotation.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:37 am
by CrimsonNBlue
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:33 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:28 am
Huh? Malik barely touched the ball. Garrett was much more of a PG in 2020 than Malik was in 2018--should have gone after that one.
Malik was so much not a PG that Devonte' had like 20 games where he played 40 minutes.
Nobody called Malik a PG, or mentioned Self liking 2 PGs. I said 2 ballhandlers.
Malik handled the ball plenty. He was a guard. Not a wing.
Revisionist history. That was a 2 ball handler lineup.
Frank played a lot of close to 40min games with Devonte next to him. Does that mean Devonte doesn't count as a ball handler that year? I don't think so. Devonte played 20 40min games because he was a NPOY candidate and that team played a tight rotation.
Semantics. And no, Malik did not handle the ball plenty. Malik was about as off-guard as we've ever had under Self.
Devonte' needed a PG spell and we didn't have one. NPOY Frank had one.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:37 am
by Cascadia
This isn’t hard. Self’s preferred style today is
Ball handler
Wing
Wing
Wing
Big
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:39 am
by Deleted User 863
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:31 am
KJ is not a big. If KJ is a big, then so is Wilson.
KJ is a PF. That's a big imo.
https://247sports.com/player/kj-adams-46057565/
Jalen Wilson is a SF. That's a wing imo.
https://247sports.com/player/jalen-wilson-45572947/
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:40 am
by CrimsonNBlue
2 ball handler offense implies that you have both guards flaring out for the outlet pass to start the secondary break. Last time we did that was 2017. Also did that with Ty/EJ, Sherron/Ty, Russ/Rio.
Things are different now where that's not as needed. Ideally, anyone 1-4 can start the secondary break. 2022 was the greatest example. 2023 should be no different.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:40 am
by Cascadia
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:31 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:26 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:14 am
2 big offense is dead for the foreseeable future. Stubborn Self even said so like 3-4 years ago.
He tried playing Dave/Mitch and Dok together.
He has said KJ and Clemence can/will play together.
All of like 4 minutes total in a situational at the end of blowouts? That means he loves it?
KJ is not a big. If KJ is a big, then so is Wilson. But that's not the point at all. We haven't run 2 big offense since Perry Ellis at the latest. Our offense doesn't even remotely resemble what we ran in the first half of Self's tenure.
Yeah, KJ 100% not a “big”
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:41 am
by CrimsonNBlue
I don't care if you call KJ Adams a Power Forward, a Right Tackle, or a Tomato, we don't run 2 big offense when he's at the 4.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:41 am
by Cascadia
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:40 am
2 ball handler offense implies that you have both guards flaring out for the outlet pass to start the secondary break. Last time we did that was 2017. Also did that with Ty/EJ, Sherron/Ty, Russ/Rio.
Things are different now where that's not as needed. Ideally, anyone 1-4 can start the secondary break. 2022 was the greatest example. 2023 should be no different.
Yes. Being a “wing” does not mean you can’t handle the ball.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:43 am
by Deleted User 863
Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:37 am
This isn’t hard. Self’s preferred style today is
Ball handler
Wing
Wing
Wing
Big
No it's not.
Last year we started out with DH and Remy starting.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:44 am
by ousdahl
Saying Malik was a ball handler is like saying BMac was a ballhandler. Nah.
I agree with Cascadia that Self likes a handler/wing/wing/wing/big lineup, tho that may effectively be more than anything a "best 5 out there" lineup. I think he'd play 2 guards if he had 2 guards he trusted more than that third wing, but as a whole he seems to prefer running as much as possible through 1 trusted primary ballhandler.
Same thing with bigs, I guess - if he had some elite 2nd big who he trusted enough to also guard the perimeter, I think he'd run with it. But instead, he likes the versatility of big wings.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:45 am
by CrimsonNBlue
Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:41 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:40 am
2 ball handler offense implies that you have both guards flaring out for the outlet pass to start the secondary break. Last time we did that was 2017. Also did that with Ty/EJ, Sherron/Ty, Russ/Rio.
Things are different now where that's not as needed. Ideally, anyone 1-4 can start the secondary break. 2022 was the greatest example. 2023 should be no different.
Yes. Being a “wing” does not mean you can’t handle the ball.
It's the biggest reason we went after McCullar. Perfect fit for Self's system because he wants 2-4 to be interchangeable (on offense) and be able to start the break.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:45 am
by ousdahl
I wonder what would have become of the starting lineup last year if Remy stayed healthy.
Do we keep Jalen coming off the bench?
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:45 am
by CrimsonNBlue
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:43 am
Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:37 am
This isn’t hard. Self’s preferred style today is
Ball handler
Wing
Wing
Wing
Big
No it's not.
Last year we started out with DH and Remy starting.
Because Jalen doesn't know how to use Uber.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:46 am
by Deleted User 863
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:41 am
I don't care if you call KJ Adams a Power Forward, a Right Tackle, or a Tomato, we don't run 2 big offense when he's at the 4.
LOL
A 2 big offense doesn't require each player being positioned on the block/in the paint the entire time.
KJ is a big. He played the 4 and 5 exclusively last year. He will play the 4 and 5 exclusively this year.
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:48 am
by ousdahl
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:45 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:43 am
Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:37 am
This isn’t hard. Self’s preferred style today is
Ball handler
Wing
Wing
Wing
Big
No it's not.
Last year we started out with DH and Remy starting.
Because Jalen doesn't know how to use Uber.
so if Jalen didn't begin the season in the doghouse, would Remy have started over Dajuan?
Re: 2022-2023 Lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:49 am
by Cascadia
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:45 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:43 am
Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:37 am
This isn’t hard. Self’s preferred style today is
Ball handler
Wing
Wing
Wing
Big
No it's not.
Last year we started out with DH and Remy starting.
Because Jalen doesn't know how to use Uber.
I don’t know how you have the energy for this, the kid is clueless.