Kansas Crimson

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:01 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:56 am

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:50 am

Again. According to the CDC Vaccinated people are carrying a similar viral load of the virus and transmitting it just as easily as non vaccinated. Its not just non vaccinated that are a public health concern..it is quantities of people in small spaces that is continuing the climb

It's a fair point, but I am mostly just trying to understand illy's logic why the government should not help enforce mandates.

But to respond, I think the goal is to get somewhere near herd immunity--it seems that incentives are very much needed.

Ive been over this in one of these threads. Somewhere.

The amount of civil liberties willfully surrendered, fueled by fear, in the post 9/11 "war on terror" was frightening and it set a dangerous precedent

This is tracking the same path with even a larger swath of liberties surrendered to the govt. It will further advance the precedent that the government can use fear to seize whatever they want from citizens.

Once gone, those abilities/choices/liberties are nearly impossible to retrieve.

It is not that I fully disagree with this quoted part, but I just don't find the two situations to be similar enough to say anything other than that I don't agree with your overall intimation.

sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:04 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:50 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:48 am

Essentially, protect this contrived right to choose not to get vaccinated over all else.

Not to mention, whether or not you choose to go to that Bulls game, a full capacity Bulls game with many unvaccinated is still a major public health concern.

Again. According to the CDC Vaccinated people are carrying a similar viral load of the virus and transmitting it just as easily as non vaccinated. Its not just non vaccinated that are a public health concern..it is quantities of people in small spaces that is continuing the climb

But it's the .0004% or whatever of vaccinated individuals that are even carrying the virus, correct? Do the math. 165+ million vaccinated, .0004% breakthrough infections.

This is an unfair and totally misleading comparison.

This is false.

It is .004% that get sick. That is not the numver that are carrying and capable of transmitting.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:04 pm i don’t feel at all like my civil liberties are any different than they were prior to 9/11

i live the same life now that i did then

actually, i feel like i have more liberty now than i did then

It doesn't feel any different to have the government scanning all your emails and cell phone calls than if they aren't until you start talking about things that set off their monitoring red flags.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:10 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:04 pm i don’t feel at all like my civil liberties are any different than they were prior to 9/11

i live the same life now that i did then

actually, i feel like i have more liberty now than i did then

It doesn't feel any different to have the government scanning all your emails and cell phone calls than if they aren't.

and?

i don’t have anything to hide

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:11 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:10 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:04 pm i don’t feel at all like my civil liberties are any different than they were prior to 9/11

i live the same life now that i did then

actually, i feel like i have more liberty now than i did then

It doesn't feel any different to have the government scanning all your emails and cell phone calls than if they aren't.

and?

i don’t have anything to hide

And being asked to show proof of vaccination to do an activity doesn't impact me any more than being asked to show ID to buy beer.

There was a viral facebook post about a user very concerned with the government getting a photograph, DOB, and location info as a result of getting the COVID vax. Without even going into what it means that this person uses facebook, wait until she learns about driver's licenses.

"It doesn't feel any different to have the government scanning all your emails and cell phone calls than if they aren't"

It doesn't feel any different to have the government bomb other countries or build walls or deregulate fracking or drilling laws--this is something that mich would say.

"Its not directly affecting me--i dont see the difference"

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:13 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:11 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:10 pm

It doesn't feel any different to have the government scanning all your emails and cell phone calls than if they aren't.

and?

i don’t have anything to hide

And being asked to show proof of vaccination to do an activity doesn't impact me any more than being asked to show ID to buy beer.

exactly

actually, the ID for a beer is more of an inconvenience...these gray hairs aren’t a fashion statement

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:14 pm There was a viral facebook post about a user very concerned with the government getting a photograph, DOB, and location info as a result of getting the COVID vax. Without even going into what it means that this person uses facebook, wait until she learns about driver's licenses.

exactly

many of the same people flipping out about rights are doing so through social media...which we know uses that data for nefarious ends

Still going off government mandate, then you run into the hypocrisy of abortion. The government shouldn't have a right to dictate your body choices. Before counter argument, you must at least understand, but not accept, that some think a life begins as soon as an egg is successfully fertilized. And thus if your argument is to protect other humans, an abortion to those that argue life begins at fertilization is a 100 percent death rate, while the odds of catching covid and then dying from it is give or take 600,000 divided by 350 some million.

I personally think its key to get vaccinated and also should be a womans right to choose...but there shouldn't be a mandate or enforcement of either.

It will be interesting to see how this place reacts when the proposed government control overreach and liberty forfeiture is from something they dont agree with.....

Wait, i feel like thats happened before.


Precedent. Is. Dangerous .


Also had no idea we had so many Duterte fans here. Dudes tough on choices. Thats for sure.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm

sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:04 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:50 am

Again. According to the CDC Vaccinated people are carrying a similar viral load of the virus and transmitting it just as easily as non vaccinated. Its not just non vaccinated that are a public health concern..it is quantities of people in small spaces that is continuing the climb

But it's the .0004% or whatever of vaccinated individuals that are even carrying the virus, correct? Do the math. 165+ million vaccinated, .0004% breakthrough infections.

This is an unfair and totally misleading comparison.

This is false.

It is .004% that get sick. That is not the numver that are carrying and capable of transmitting.

Even more incentive for the unvaxed to get vaxed, because the # of breakthrough infections in vaccinated folks is minuscule.

sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:22 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm

sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:04 pm

But it's the .0004% or whatever of vaccinated individuals that are even carrying the virus, correct? Do the math. 165+ million vaccinated, .0004% breakthrough infections.

This is an unfair and totally misleading comparison.

This is false.

It is .004% that get sick. That is not the numver that are carrying and capable of transmitting.

Even more incentive for the unvaxed to get vaxed, because the # of breakthrough infections in vaccinated folks is minuscule.

Wonderful and original anecdote. Completely not to the point of the discussion.

I chose to be vaccinated for myself

I choose to avoid high volume events for my children (and because I hate being around large groups of people...but also, for my kids).

The vaccinated people can and do carry the virus and transmit the virus with similar viral loads as unvaccinated. Banning the unvaccinated from events is not the be all, end all of preventing the spread of the virus.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:28 pm I chose to be vaccinated for myself

I choose to avoid high volume events for my children (and because I hate being around large groups of people...but also, for my kids).

The vaccinated people can and do carry the virus and transmit the virus with similar viral loads as unvaccinated. Banning the unvaccinated from events is not the be all, end all of preventing the spread of the virus.

WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE?

Stop yelling. I feel like I'm talking to a wall......please read the last page in the thread for your answer.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:15 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:13 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:11 pm
and?

i don’t have anything to hide

And being asked to show proof of vaccination to do an activity doesn't impact me any more than being asked to show ID to buy beer.

exactly

actually, the ID for a beer is more of an inconvenience...these gray hairs aren’t a fashion statement

I just laugh when I get carded. My favorite t-shirt is old enough to buy beer.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:28 pm I chose to be vaccinated for myself

I choose to avoid high volume events for my children (and because I hate being around large groups of people...but also, for my kids).

The vaccinated people (who are much, much less likely to be infected with covid thanks to being vaccinated) can and do carry the virus and transmit the virus with similar viral loads as unvaccinated. Banning the unvaccinated from events is not the be all, end all of preventing the spread of the virus.

FYP

Played a golf tournament this weekend with a guy whose kid tested positive last night. We were only indoors for about 20 minutes in the aggregate, but I guess we're going to put Mr. Pfizer to the test.