BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:06 pm
What about people who don't get vaccinated for religious reasons? Hold them down and give them the shots anyway? Every year when we need a booster?
Ideally. But, I will probably have to settle for effectively banning them from most public places.
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:31 pm
odd that you’d think the Philippines is an apt comparison here, but laughed off my comparison to South Africa in the water use discussion
Its an extreme example of draconian measures that many here would welcome with open arms. I dont think theyd agree with the other items he has control over, however.
yeah, i get why you’d use that example/comparison
i just think it’s much less apt than the one i used
the checks and balances, not to mention ngo watchdog groups, in the US make your comparison rather meaningless, imo
for all intents and purposes, Duterte is a dictator at the head of a pseudo-democracy
“that many here would welcome with open arms”...dramatic effect much?
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:06 pm
What about people who don't get vaccinated for religious reasons? Hold them down and give them the shots anyway? Every year when we need a booster?
This is getting out of hand.
40% of the population in this country isn't vaccinated.
99.9% of them don't have anything to do with their religion.
They're lazy, or they're dumb, or ill-informed, or they're scared of needles.
Let's not make martyrs out of them.
What's out of hand is the anti-vaccine hysteria, the anti-vaccine bullshit.
What we should be asking ourselves is, why was the polio vaccine effort so much better than the Covid19 vaccine effort, and the answer is pubic perception of the vaccine.
So, let's stop trying to demonize people who are supportive of the vaccine and recognize the problem are the people preventing others from getting it. The problem is the anti-vax campaigns and the misinformation and the divisiveness.
My guess is polio vaccine was pushed by people's doctors instead of pushed by politicians. But that's just a guess (trad won't like me guessing).
And i am not making a martyr out of anyone. I just don't think a vaccine mandate for something like covid is reasonable.
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:06 pm
What about people who don't get vaccinated for religious reasons? Hold them down and give them the shots anyway? Every year when we need a booster?
Ideally. But, I will probably have to settle for effectively banning them from most public places.
If public places aren't safe then nobody should be in public places. If stopping the spread of the virus completely is the goal then we should all stay home. It's either okay to spread the virus or not. It can't be that it's okay for vaccinated people to spread the virus, but not okay for unvaccinated people to spread the virus.
Ideally. But, I will probably have to settle for effectively banning them from most public places.
If public places aren't safe then nobody should be in public places. If stopping the spread of the virus completely is the goal then we should all stay home. It's either okay to spread the virus or not. It can't be that it's okay for vaccinated people to spread the virus, but not okay for unvaccinated people to spread the virus.
Not my point and don't care to argue yours.
Your religious freedom has limits.
I am not looking to argue with you. We have similar thoughts on covid right up until forced vaccinations.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:34 pm
by PhDhawk
But you don't similar thoughts.
If I hear another person say, 'I got the vaccine, I am not antivax, but by god I support any red-blooded american's god given right to choose what to do to their own body" while fucking Toby Keith plays in the background my head is going to explode.
Every goddam one of you is missing the point. Any intelligent person who understands and is properly informed about the vaccine would get one. Without hesitation. There's no reason not to, and there are a million reasons to do it.
Stop wasting your energy standing up for their fucking "rights" and go tell someone the vaccine is safe and effective, or drive someone to a fucking clinic, or tell an antivaxxer their full of shit.
This isn't taxation without representation, or having to quarter British soldiers, it's a safe and effective preventative measure that saves lives, keeps businesses open, alleviates hospitals, reduces illness, reduces health care costs, etc. etc.
Spend more time promoting the vaccine and less time defending the rights of dumb fucks to make dumb fuck choices. And let's stop pretending that the only people effected by said decision are the individuals themselves. They aren't; every person who doesn't get vaccinated is unnecessarily putting others at an increased risk to get hurt unnecessarily.
Just get vaccinated. No one should HAVE to tell you to. No one should HAVE to make you, you should fucking do it because it's the right thing to do. If you don't you're an idiot, lazy, cowardly sack of human excrement.
If you honestly don't want a gov't mandated vaccine, you should be getting as many people as possible to do it voluntarily so that it doesn't come to that point. If 85% of Americans got vaccinated on their own we wouldn't have to have this idiotic argument.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:39 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:34 pm
But you don't similar thoughts.
If I hear another person say, 'I got the vaccine, I am not antivax, but by god I support any red-blooded american's god given right to choose what to do to their own body" while fucking Toby Keith plays in the background my head is going to explode.
Every goddam one of you is missing the point. Any intelligent person who understands and is properly informed about the vaccine would get one. Without hesitation. There's no reason not to, and there are a million reasons to do it.
Stop wasting your energy standing up for their fucking "rights" and go tell someone the vaccine is safe and effective, or drive someone to a fucking clinic, or tell an antivaxxer their full of shit.
This isn't taxation without representation, or having to quarter British soldiers, it's a safe and effective preventative measure that saves lives, keeps businesses open, alleviates hospitals, reduces illness, reduces health care costs, etc. etc.
Spend more time promoting the vaccine and less time defending the rights of dumb fucks to make dumb fuck choices. And let's stop pretending that the only people effected by said decision are the indiciduals themselves. They aren't every person who doesn't get vaccinated is unnecessarily putting others at an increased risk to get hurt unneccessarily.
Just get vaccinated. No one should HAVE to tell you to. No one should HAVE to make you, you should fucking do it because it's the right thing to do. If you don't you're an idiot, lazy, cowardly sack of human excrement.
If you honestly don't want a gov't mandated vaccine, you should be getting as many people as possible to do it voluntarily so that it doesn't come to that point. If 85% of Americans got vaccinated on their own we wouldn't have to have this idiotic argument.
^^^^^ much closer. You also forgot the adjective "selfish." I'm not even adding that much hyperbole--I firmly believe that people have a fucked up/distorted view of personal freedom.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:42 pm
by Deleted User 863
Nobody is missing your point PhD.
I just don't agree with forced vaccination.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:47 pm
by PhDhawk
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:42 pm
Nobody is missing your point PhD.
I just don't agree with forced vaccination.
Like I said, If you really felt that way, you'd be spending your effort getting more people to be vaccinated rather than defending shitty life choices on an internet message board.
Hell, the reason I don't let asshats like lobster and randy get away with their bullshit is there might be someone reading this bullshit who believes them. All you're doing is potentially reenforcing someone's bad decision by talking about their rights like your protecting their right to vote or give birth to a second child.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:50 pm
by PhDhawk
People shouldn't be forced to drink water. If they want to die of dehydration we should let them. I'm here to speak up for the voiceless dehydrators whose mouths are too dry to talk for themselves. If you're an American you should recognize that the gov't should NOT force people to drink water either.
See how dumb it is. Why would anyone not drink water voluntarily?
Only, as dumb as this is, my wasting my time protecting the rights of someone to make a dumb decision. It's actually a bad example because at least dehydration isn't contagious and can't kill someone else.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:52 pm
by Deleted User 863
I spend my time worrying about myself and my family. I don't give a damn about idiots not getting vaccinated and potentially dying. If I don't think it's safe for me or my family outside then we will stay inside until all the unvaccinated idiots die off. The vaccine makes it safe for me to go outside so i go outside. When it wasn't safe i stayed in.
Ideally. But, I will probably have to settle for effectively banning them from most public places.
If public places aren't safe then nobody should be in public places. If stopping the spread of the virus completely is the goal then we should all stay home. It's either okay to spread the virus or not. It can't be that it's okay for vaccinated people to spread the virus, but not okay for unvaccinated people to spread the virus.
Not my point and don't care to argue yours.
Your religious freedom has limits.
Exactly. Anti-vaxxers can have religious exemptions the same time Hindus get exemption for their tax dollars going to beef and pork producers.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:13 pm
by Deleted User 863
LOL anti vaxx exemptions.
This country is fucked. I'll take the under on the violent civil war within the next 40 years. The far sides are so extreme.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:13 pm
by Deleted User 887
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:52 pm
I spend my time worrying about myself and my family. I don't give a damn about idiots not getting vaccinated and potentially dying. If I don't think it's safe for me or my family outside then we will stay inside until all the unvaccinated idiots die off. The vaccine makes it safe for me to go outside so i go outside. When it wasn't safe i stayed in.
I think you may be a bit misguided. If you care about yourself and your family, you sure as heck should give a damn about "the idiots not getting vaccinated and potentially dying".
The vaccine makes it safe for you to go outside? Maybe for YOU but I know at least 20 people who felt I was in no way "safe" being outside yesterday in the environment that I was in. They very well may be right.
Problem is I believe NONE of us know 100% how "safe" it really is for us to be in close proximity to others while outside.
In response to PhD....
I don't believe much of what lobster and randy post but you know what?
I choose not to believe much of what the so called "experts" say either.
I say that based on the past 16-18 months in which they have been proven to be wrong about many things.
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:52 pm
I spend my time worrying about myself and my family. I don't give a damn about idiots not getting vaccinated and potentially dying. If I don't think it's safe for me or my family outside then we will stay inside until all the unvaccinated idiots die off. The vaccine makes it safe for me to go outside so i go outside. When it wasn't safe i stayed in.
I think you may be a bit misguided. If you care about yourself and your family, you sure as heck should give a damn about "the idiots not getting vaccinated and potentially dying".
The vaccine makes it safe for you to go outside? Maybe for YOU but I know at least 20 people who felt I was in no way "safe" being outside yesterday in the environment that I was in. They very well may be right.
Problem is I believe NONE of us know 100% how "safe" it really is for us to be in close proximity to others while outside.
My point is that if it is unsafe outside my kids and family won't go outside. We will shelter in place like we did a year ago.
I think people should get vaccinated and stay their asses at home until this is over (if eliminating the virus is the goal).
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:23 pm
by Deleted User 863
The vast majority of the vulnerable population of our country is vaccinated. The majority of the vulnerable population who are not vaccinated are doing so by choice idiotically, and may pay with their life, their mistake. The vaccine prevents death in almost 100% of infections in vaccinated people. Get vaccinated. If still nervous, stay home. You're safe at home.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:24 pm
by TDub
Im not a big toby keith fan.....i just want to see if PhDs head actually explodes
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:52 pm
I spend my time worrying about myself and my family. I don't give a damn about idiots not getting vaccinated and potentially dying. If I don't think it's safe for me or my family outside then we will stay inside until all the unvaccinated idiots die off. The vaccine makes it safe for me to go outside so i go outside. When it wasn't safe i stayed in.
I think you may be a bit misguided. If you care about yourself and your family, you sure as heck should give a damn about "the idiots not getting vaccinated and potentially dying".
The vaccine makes it safe for you to go outside? Maybe for YOU but I know at least 20 people who felt I was in no way "safe" being outside yesterday in the environment that I was in. They very well may be right.
Problem is I believe NONE of us know 100% how "safe" it really is for us to be in close proximity to others while outside.
My point is that if it is unsafe outside my kids and family won't go outside. We will shelter in place like we did a year ago.
I think people should get vaccinated and stay their asses at home until this is over (if eliminating the virus is the goal).
Your point is a good one.
My point is how do you know for sure just how safe it is to be outside in close proximity to other people if you don't know if they are vaccinated or carrying the virus?
As impossible as it would have been to do, I can't help but wonder if every person in the world was able to stay home for 2-3 weeks 18 months ago, if we might not have the virus and it's variants today.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:26 pm
by Deleted User 887
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:23 pm
The vast majority of the vulnerable population of our country is vaccinated. The majority of the vulnerable population who are not vaccinated are doing so by choice idiotically, and may pay with their life, their mistake. The vaccine prevents death in almost 100% of infections in vaccinated people. Get vaccinated. If still nervous, stay home. You're safe at home.
You're safe at home if you live alone and no one is coming in and out of your house.
The majority of the people I know who contracted the virus - have friends and relatives who they spent time with who also had the virus. Gee, imagine that.
I think you may be a bit misguided. If you care about yourself and your family, you sure as heck should give a damn about "the idiots not getting vaccinated and potentially dying".
The vaccine makes it safe for you to go outside? Maybe for YOU but I know at least 20 people who felt I was in no way "safe" being outside yesterday in the environment that I was in. They very well may be right.
Problem is I believe NONE of us know 100% how "safe" it really is for us to be in close proximity to others while outside.
My point is that if it is unsafe outside my kids and family won't go outside. We will shelter in place like we did a year ago.
I think people should get vaccinated and stay their asses at home until this is over (if eliminating the virus is the goal).
Your point is a good one.
My point is how do you know for sure just how safe it is to be outside in close proximity to other people if you don't know if they are vaccinated or carrying the virus?
As impossible as it would have been to do, I can't help but wonder if every person in the world was able to stay home for 2-3 weeks 18 months ago, if we might not have the virus and it's variants today.
1st part: its not safe to be around anyone you dont live with. Period.
Agreed. 4 weeks in the beginning of every single person in the entire world sheltering in place with no outside contact could have completely eliminated the virus. We didn't do that. We did half assed lockdowns so that we could prevent hospitals from being overrun, which was the signal that we were accepting the virus as part of our lives for the forseeable future and maybe forever. Probably forever.