Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:52 am If a business wants to enforce washing hands, that's up to them.
The central government shouldn't go, hey, small diner in Ohio, we don't think your staff is washing their hands to the level we want you to, you're shutdown.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:52 am If a business wants to enforce washing hands, that's up to them.
The central government shouldn't go, hey, small diner in Ohio, we don't think your staff is washing their hands to the level we want you to, you're shutdown.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:56 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:52 am If a business wants to enforce washing hands, that's up to them.
The central government shouldn't go, hey, small diner in Ohio, we don't think your staff is washing their hands to the level we want you to, you're shutdown.

But, that's exactly what state health departments do, among other things.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:03 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:56 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:52 am If a business wants to enforce washing hands, that's up to them.
The central government shouldn't go, hey, small diner in Ohio, we don't think your staff is washing their hands to the level we want you to, you're shutdown.

But, that's exactly what state health departments do, among other things.

The Reagan-era paranoia over government is poisonous. As I've mentioned, I voted R on a nearly-uniform basis until Trump. I have what could be described as traditional conservative economic and governance values; I prefer small government, and I prefer local governance.

BUT - government is just a job, like any other. The whole idea is that, as each of us individually cannot manage things like public health on a community scale, we pay people to do things like that. Of fucking course one of the functions is to be sure we're not spreading disease.

Leawood wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:57 pm Some people need to read more about civil liberties. Those that think a federal, state, or local government can simply spy with impunity on someone's internet use (Facebook, etc.) forget about a little thing called "warrants" and the 4th Amendment. Similarly, federal, state, and local governments have this thing called "public health and safety" powers (read, vaccines) that folks must follow for the greater good. I suppose one can homeschool their kids to avoid polio vaccines and the like, but, if public health and safety requires it, then the government has the power to regulate. If one is unhappy with the exercise of that power, then there are these things called "courts" that can umpire such societal tensions, and there are plenty of "public interest" lawyers who do just that. On the other side of the coin, someone like the Missouri A.D. can file suit to stop mask mandates in Kansas City, except that the A.D. with his political stunt forgot that Kansas City is a constitution charter city under the Missouri Constitution. So good luck with that.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:12 amWe have an awful lot of Patrick Henry wannabes jumping over $20 bills to grab some $1 bills.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:12 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:03 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:56 am

But, that's exactly what state health departments do, among other things.

The Reagan-era paranoia over government is poisonous. As I've mentioned, I voted R on a nearly-uniform basis until Trump. I have what could be described as traditional conservative economic and governance values; I prefer small government, and I prefer local governance.

BUT - government is just a job, like any other. The whole idea is that, as each of us individually cannot manage things like public health on a community scale, we pay people to do things like that. Of fucking course one of the functions is to be sure we're not spreading disease.

What I find so silly about the 'muh rights' arguments is how many other rights we've given up and don't bat an eye about. Then we're pissed about masks or safe vaccines.

We have to get a license to fish in a public lake and we accept that. We pay taxes on the money we earn and we are fine with it.

I don't want a big government controlling every aspect of our lives. But damn we think we're a lot more free than we are just because we're used to all the regulations.

You know how many hoops you have to jump through to start a small business? Those are some gov't regulations I'd like to see reduced or streamlined more than I care about not wearing a mask, or someone's right not to take life-saving safe vaccines.

We have an awful lot of Patrick Henry wannabes jumping over $20 bills to grab some $1 bills.

zsn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:48 am Who should enforce it then? Are you saying that there should be no enforcement? So it’s just a suggestion then? As 99 says, Yikes!

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:07 am People value principles that differ than yours.
Some want fewer restrictions rather than more.
And want to put their foot down rather than just saying 'no big deal' to the next loss of ( LOL ) liberties.

Some of the things mentioned ( fishing licenses or businesses ) are things that people elect to do or be a part of - but the government isn't saying 'you have to have a fishing license even if you don't want to fish' or 'you have to have a business license even if you don't want to start a business'. And neither of those involve injecting something into your body.

And the whole government cannot spy due to regulations is some horseshit.
In theory that is correct -- but one can't read what Snowden revealed and think that is legitimate.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:19 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:07 am People value principles that differ than yours.
Some want fewer restrictions rather than more.
And want to put their foot down rather than just saying 'no big deal' to the next loss of ( LOL ) liberties.

Some of the things mentioned ( fishing licenses or businesses ) are things that people elect to do or be a part of - but the government isn't saying 'you have to have a fishing license even if you don't want to fish' or 'you have to have a business license even if you don't want to start a business'. And neither of those involve injecting something into your body.

And the whole government cannot spy due to regulations is some horseshit.
In theory that is correct -- but one can't read what Snowden revealed and think that is legitimate.

I have to produce my kids' vaccine record to do anything more than go through a Wendy's. Mandatory vaccinations are, and have been, an accepted part of public life for decades.