Kansas Crimson

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:22 am**

Geezer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:06 pm You realize you are shredding you remaining credibility defending a mobbed up petty crime family Don.

lulz (Hi, Japhy!)

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:31 am**

I remember Marcia Clark on a panel at the time saying, "Everyone who hasn't ever lied about sex raise your hand."

Seems like there might be quite a few more who could raise their hands to "Everyone who hasn't used the powers of their office to bribe a weak foreign government raise your hand."

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:47 am**

Leawood wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:56 pm Actually, if my memory is correct, Bill Clinton didn’t lie about a material fact. Sex was never defined as a foundation. Clinton took it as P in V.

Still, stupid.

That pales in comparison to what our scumbag President and his scumbag “process” supporters are advocating.

Here's the thing: it is possible to believe ALL of the following simultaneously.

1. What Trump did seems pretty terrible.
2. Even beyond what he did in this case, he is a vile man and an impulsive and narcissistic "leader."
3. Process matters nevertheless.
4. This is not the only instance of wrongdoing by this president, not by a long shot
5. Despite this, not everything he does is worth getting HysTeriCAL about. Boys, wolves, and such.
6. Republicans like Lindsey Graham are hypocrites on impeachment
7. Democrats like Nancy Pelosi and Jerry Nadler are too.
8. Trump is NOT a threat to the republic. And this is NOT a constitutional crisis. The institutions of the republic, including the constitution are working precisely as designed.
9. Members of the Trump campaign unethically and, perhaps, illegally solicited damaging information about Hillary Clinton from foreign agents
10. Parts of the intelligence bureaucracy committed illegal acts in an attempt to subvert the Trump campaign

etc., etc.

My repulsion at the reaction to Trump -- before and after the election -- is, by no means, an endorsement of Trump himself. Unlike an election, perceptions about our political class are NOT a binary choice.

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:36 pm**

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:47 am
Leawood wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:56 pm Actually, if my memory is correct, Bill Clinton didn’t lie about a material fact. Sex was never defined as a foundation. Clinton took it as P in V.

Still, stupid.

That pales in comparison to what our scumbag President and his scumbag “process” supporters are advocating.
Here's the thing: it is possible to believe ALL of the following simultaneously.

1. What Trump did seems pretty terrible.
2. Even beyond what he did in this case, he is a vile man and an impulsive and narcissistic "leader."
3. Process matters nevertheless.
4. This is not the only instance of wrongdoing by this president, not by a long shot
5. Despite this, not everything he does is worth getting HysTeriCAL about. Boys, wolves, and such.
6. Republicans like Lindsey Graham are hypocrites on impeachment
7. Democrats like Nancy Pelosi and Jerry Nadler are too.
8. Trump is NOT a threat to the republic. And this is NOT a constitutional crisis. The institutions of the republic, including the constitution are working precisely as designed.
9. Members of the Trump campaign unethically and, perhaps, illegally solicited damaging information about Hillary Clinton from foreign agents
10. Parts of the intelligence bureaucracy committed illegal acts in an attempt to subvert the Trump campaign

etc., etc.

My repulsion at the reaction to Trump -- before and after the election -- is, by no means, an endorsement of Trump himself. Unlike an election, perceptions about our political class are NOT a binary choice.

1. Agree 100%
2. Agree 100%
3. Agree 100% provided that the requirement is that the process be what is required, not just whatever someone did in the past that wasn't required because "it was done in the past".
4. Agree 100%. There are probably hundreds of examples that the public doesn't know about that would top this one.
5. Agree 100%
6. Agree 100%
7. Agree 100% but it doesn't change the fact that they are going through this necessary process in what seems to be the proper manner.
8. Disagree. He is a threat to the republic because his disinformation campaign has convinced a large section of the public that our own institutions are actively working against him and that the FBI, CIA and portions of our military cannot be trusted and are corrupt. His obvious lies are still believed by a startlingly large percentage of Americans.
9. Agree 100%
10. You'd have to give specific examples for me to agree or disagree. And honestly, if it took some illegal actions to subvert Trump's illegal, immoral, reckless actions that are counter to what we are (or should hope to be) as a nation, I am not sure I'd have a problem with that.

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:58 pm**

twocoach wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:36 pm
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:47 am
Leawood wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:56 pm Actually, if my memory is correct, Bill Clinton didn’t lie about a material fact. Sex was never defined as a foundation. Clinton took it as P in V.

Still, stupid.

That pales in comparison to what our scumbag President and his scumbag “process” supporters are advocating.
Here's the thing: it is possible to believe ALL of the following simultaneously.

1. What Trump did seems pretty terrible.
2. Even beyond what he did in this case, he is a vile man and an impulsive and narcissistic "leader."
3. Process matters nevertheless.
4. This is not the only instance of wrongdoing by this president, not by a long shot
5. Despite this, not everything he does is worth getting HysTeriCAL about. Boys, wolves, and such.
6. Republicans like Lindsey Graham are hypocrites on impeachment
7. Democrats like Nancy Pelosi and Jerry Nadler are too.
8. Trump is NOT a threat to the republic. And this is NOT a constitutional crisis. The institutions of the republic, including the constitution are working precisely as designed.
9. Members of the Trump campaign unethically and, perhaps, illegally solicited damaging information about Hillary Clinton from foreign agents
10. Parts of the intelligence bureaucracy committed illegal acts in an attempt to subvert the Trump campaign

etc., etc.

My repulsion at the reaction to Trump -- before and after the election -- is, by no means, an endorsement of Trump himself. Unlike an election, perceptions about our political class are NOT a binary choice.
1. Agree 100%
2. Agree 100%
3. Agree 100% provided that the requirement is that the process be what is required, not just whatever someone did in the past that wasn't required because "it was done in the past".
4. Agree 100%. There are probably hundreds of examples that the public doesn't know about that would top this one.
5. Agree 100%
6. Agree 100%
7. Agree 100% but it doesn't change the fact that they are going through this necessary process in what seems to be the proper manner.
8. Disagree. He is a threat to the republic because his disinformation campaign has convinced a large section of the public that our own institutions are actively working against him and that the FBI, CIA and portions of our military cannot be trusted and are corrupt. His obvious lies are still believed by a startlingly large percentage of Americans.
9. Agree 100%
10. You'd have to give specific examples for me to agree or disagree. And honestly, if it took some illegal actions to subvert Trump's illegal, immoral, reckless actions that are counter to what we are (or should hope to be) as a nation, I am not sure I'd have a problem with that.

What twocoach said.

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:14 pm**

Looks like Pence made the rounds of the talk shows this morning. Heck of a job, Mikey:

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:59 pm**

As to #8 on DC's list......the Ukraine corruption is the one we know of. We do not have enough data to categorically state that Trump is NOT a threat to the Republic. Who knows how many other quid pro quo arrangements are out there, and with whom. In Trump's case, given the past history I will proceed on the situation that he is a threat to the Republic until proven otherwise. The only way he is not a threat is when he is out of office.

For now, Moscow Mitch and Lindsey Graham are in the same bucket.

As for #10: I call BS. It's Bill Barr's word against the Senate Intelligence Committee's recent bipartisan report. I will take my chances with the latter.

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:13 pm**

zsn wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:59 pm It's Bill Barr's word against the Senate Intelligence Committee's recent bipartisan report. I will take my chances with the latter.

so...yer saying Brennan and Clapper should resist subpoenas?

How very Trumpish of you.

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:04 pm**

I was skeptical when I read the title, but conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin makes a convincing argument.

10 reasons the Democrats are winning on impeachment

CNN reported on Friday, “The opening statement of Bill Taylor, the top US diplomat in Ukraine, is ‘reverberating’ on Capitol Hill among Republicans, according to GOP Hill sources, who told CNN that Taylor’s testimony is a game changer in the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump.” Republicans, it seems, understand that “Taylor’s statement was so detailed, so specific and that he is so respected that it is having an impact.” ...

1). First, they have a narrow set of facts and are sticking with the Ukraine scandal (and obstruction thereof). The story has an expanding cast of characters, but the high crime and/or misdemeanor — extorting Ukraine to help President Trump’s reelection — is easy to understand.

2). Second, they have cooperating witnesses willing to defy the White House’s demands that they not testify. The permanent civil servants have proved to be far more courageous and patriotic than, say, former White House counsel Donald McGahn, who declined to testify under subpoena.

3). Third, because Trump and his minions — including the hapless acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney — fail to understand what they have done wrong, we’ve seen serial confessions.

5). Fifth, House and Senate Republicans do not seem to think there is a substantive defense, either. They concoct specious complaints about process because they have nothing else to say.

9). Ninth, there are more and more witnesses yet to come.

10). Tenth, it matters that a huge majority of Americans think Trump is dishonest and has handled the inquiry poorly. Trump has no reservoir of good will, and it is easy to see that a credibility contest between Trump on one side and, well just about anyone on the other, will not go well for Trump.

None of this is to say Republicans are on the verge of a mass defection, or that there are 20 votes among the GOP members of the Senate for removal. Nevertheless, in waiting for just the right moment to launch a formal impeachment inquest and putting House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) in charge, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) once more has outmaneuvered and out-messaged Trump. This time, his presidency hangs in the balance.

[...]

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:26 am**

Where TF is the "I Can't Keep Up" thread?

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:52 am**

Trump goes all Bidengaff, and upsets bff Putin, in the process:

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:50 am**

Man, could you I’d imagine if it was cankles who was directing all her underlings to defy congressional subpoenas?

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:07 pm**

here we go...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/28/us/p ... 50ing-news

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:32 pm**

So once that vote happens, what will be the next excuse by the Teump Administration will give for their ongoing obstruction of justice? What excuse will they have for refusing to turn over documents and ordering employees to defy subpoenas?

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:00 pm**

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:32 pm So once that vote happens, what will be the next excuse by the Teump Administration will give for their ongoing obstruction of justice? What excuse will they have for refusing to turn over documents and ordering employees to defy subpoenas?

Here's "the next excuse by the Trump Administration...for their ongoing obstruction of justice" you were asking for. I don't know about you, but I'm not feeling it:

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:02 pm**

White House told in May of Ukraine President Zelenskiy's concerns about Giuliani, Sondland

The White House was alerted earlier than previously reported that Giuliani's pressure campaign was rattling the new Ukrainian president, two sources say...

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:53 pm**

Uh oh, it looks like "conservative", law and order republicans, are going to get the public process they've been spoiling for.

Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is trying, you have to give him that:

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:04 pm**

so maybe Trump will finally win a majority election!

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:09 pm**

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:04 pm so maybe Trump will finally win a majority election!

Electoral college smack! Nice!

Posted: **Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:32 pm**

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:04 pm so maybe Trump will finally win a majority election!

Wait.

Are you trying to bait me into another "Clinton too!"?

Kansas Crimson

Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?

Re: Where TF is the Impeachment Inquiry Thread?