Kansas Crimson

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:09 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:00 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:56 am https://www.si.com/nba/2021/04/08/nba-m ... ch-madness

49. Hawks (from Heat): Ochai Agbaji, SG, Kansas

I think he's in the toughest spot you can really find yourself in, from a stay or go standpoint.

Not an easy decision for Garrett, either, if he is truly in play for #60.

I think it's much easier for Garrett; there's not much ceiling left.

Much harder for Och, who has first-round physical tools but not yet the production to match.

Well, coming back is less of a no brainer when you consider it’s a dude with a degree and aspirations to play pro ball one way or another.

It would be awesome and a lot of fun and all to play another year of college ball, but what good does that do toward a career at this point?

Pro athletes have a shelf life of like 10 or maybe 15 years if they’re lucky. Within that window, what good does it do to not be getting paid for another year?

Even if he didn’t have a degree, you can always go back and get that once you’re done playing, but even that is moot.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:13 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:09 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:00 am

I think he's in the toughest spot you can really find yourself in, from a stay or go standpoint.

Not an easy decision for Garrett, either, if he is truly in play for #60.

I think it's much easier for Garrett; there's not much ceiling left.

Much harder for Och, who has first-round physical tools but not yet the production to match.

Looking at Garrett's situation, I see a decision between playing one more year of fun basketball (and in the US) but while also getting completely exposed as a point guard prospect, because he won't play there, and demolishing any chance at a 2nd round selection.

At least with Och, he can come back and produce to get into the first round.

I kinda wonder if a prospective Garrett return is contingent upon playing more off the ball...

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:30 am I kinda wonder if a prospective Garrett return is contingent upon playing more off the ball...

For us, I think it is pretty clear that is the case.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:32 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:30 am I kinda wonder if a prospective Garrett return is contingent upon playing more off the ball...

For us, I think it is pretty clear that is the case.

I could see a one-year stint somewhere else being beneficial to him.

Separate from what probably will happen or what's truly best for the players...

If we could have only Ochai or Garrett next year, but not both, which would you take?

To me it's Garrett and, given the addition of Yesufu, it's not close.

Mjl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:15 am Separate from what probably will happen or what's truly best for the players...

If we could have only Ochai or Garrett next year, but not both, which would you take?

To me it's Garrett and, given the addition of Yesufu, it's not close.

Och, and it's not close.

I totally get where you are coming from, but I am so sick of watching Garrett's shooting form. Never again.

MG for sure.

With the way the game has transformed over the years, you can't afford to have a guy on the floor who isn't a threat to shoot...especially if it's your PG.

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:11 am Really?
Him coming back seems like a no brainer to me because his game, when I last saw it said D-League or overseas. That could all change if he came back for his senior year and showed he can put the ball on the floor and be a more consistent scorer.

This.

That assumes he has it in him mentally and physically. If not, he should go. But work on driving to the rim with a purpose frequently, he could be an 18+ppg guy, (especially if we pick up pace and play more like we did in 18, which unfortunately for him depends on the PG position and the coach), but if he added that, he could be a late lotto guy...or come back and be the same player and go undrafted.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:23 am

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:11 am Really?
Him coming back seems like a no brainer to me because his game, when I last saw it said D-League or overseas. That could all change if he came back for his senior year and showed he can put the ball on the floor and be a more consistent scorer.

This.

That assumes he has it in him mentally and physically. If not, he should go. But work on driving to the rim with a purpose frequently, he could be an 18+ppg guy, (especially if we pick up pace and play more like we did in 18, which unfortunately for him depends on the PG position and the coach), but if he added that, he could be a late lotto guy...or come back and be the same player and go undrafted.

Better PG play will undoubtedly help his draft stock. And our team!

Och hasn't played that many games for being a junior with 2 years as a starter.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:30 am I kinda wonder if a prospective Garrett return is contingent upon playing more off the ball...

for Garrett or for Self?

I'd love to have him playing the 3 again, and going beast mode on defense. But then we NEED a real PG who's gonna push pace, because Garrett's a half court liability on offense. Which was the problem with him being the PG, it slowed things down which makes a lineup with him in it easier to defend.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:23 am

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:11 am Really?
Him coming back seems like a no brainer to me because his game, when I last saw it said D-League or overseas. That could all change if he came back for his senior year and showed he can put the ball on the floor and be a more consistent scorer.

This.

That assumes he has it in him mentally and physically. If not, he should go. But work on driving to the rim with a purpose frequently, he could be an 18+ppg guy, (especially if we pick up pace and play more like we did in 18, which unfortunately for him depends on the PG position and the coach), but if he added that, he could be a late lotto guy...or come back and be the same player and go undrafted.

I'm not convinced he has it physically. He's not quick.

Mjl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:27 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:23 am

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:11 am Really?
Him coming back seems like a no brainer to me because his game, when I last saw it said D-League or overseas. That could all change if he came back for his senior year and showed he can put the ball on the floor and be a more consistent scorer.

This.

That assumes he has it in him mentally and physically. If not, he should go. But work on driving to the rim with a purpose frequently, he could be an 18+ppg guy, (especially if we pick up pace and play more like we did in 18, which unfortunately for him depends on the PG position and the coach), but if he added that, he could be a late lotto guy...or come back and be the same player and go undrafted.

I'm not convinced he has it physically. He's not quick.

Then he should go.

14 ppg and standing on the perimeter won't improve his draft stock. And I'm not sure it gets us closer to another F4. Although I have a hard time believing we can replace him with someone better for next season.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:25 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:30 am I kinda wonder if a prospective Garrett return is contingent upon playing more off the ball...

for Garrett or for Self?

I'd love to have him playing the 3 again, and going beast mode on defense. But then we NEED a real PG who's gonna push pace, because Garrett's a half court liability on offense. Which was the problem with him being the PG, it slowed things down which makes a lineup with him in it easier to defend.

How is he a liability on offense? He was the best driver on the team, and he shot better from 3 than Braun (35% vs 34%) and it's not like he never shot them (more than two attempts per game).

There's a lot of players who aren't the "quick" and can still get to where they want to go in order to score.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:34 am

Mjl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:27 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:23 am

This.

That assumes he has it in him mentally and physically. If not, he should go. But work on driving to the rim with a purpose frequently, he could be an 18+ppg guy, (especially if we pick up pace and play more like we did in 18, which unfortunately for him depends on the PG position and the coach), but if he added that, he could be a late lotto guy...or come back and be the same player and go undrafted.

I'm not convinced he has it physically. He's not quick.

Then he should go.

14 ppg and standing on the perimeter won't improve his draft stock. And I'm not sure it gets us closer to another F4. Although I have a hard time believing we can replace him with someone better for next season.

Agreed, except the replacement part. On the offensive end I think Yesufu is better.

Mjl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:27 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:23 am

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:11 am Really?
Him coming back seems like a no brainer to me because his game, when I last saw it said D-League or overseas. That could all change if he came back for his senior year and showed he can put the ball on the floor and be a more consistent scorer.

This.

That assumes he has it in him mentally and physically. If not, he should go. But work on driving to the rim with a purpose frequently, he could be an 18+ppg guy, (especially if we pick up pace and play more like we did in 18, which unfortunately for him depends on the PG position and the coach), but if he added that, he could be a late lotto guy...or come back and be the same player and go undrafted.

I'm not convinced he has it physically. He's not quick.

He's not quick enough to get around people to the rim, but he actually has pretty good quick first step and pull up move that will work in the NBA. His defense is also good enough.

If he adds an attack the rim game, then he's like top 10-14. He's more of a late first ceiling guy.

Mjl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:34 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:25 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:30 am I kinda wonder if a prospective Garrett return is contingent upon playing more off the ball...

for Garrett or for Self?

I'd love to have him playing the 3 again, and going beast mode on defense. But then we NEED a real PG who's gonna push pace, because Garrett's a half court liability on offense. Which was the problem with him being the PG, it slowed things down which makes a lineup with him in it easier to defend.

How is he a liability on offense? He was the best driver on the team, and he shot better from 3 than Braun (35% vs 34%) and it's not like he never shot them (more than two attempts per game).

Defenses can sag off him (which is why his % was higher, easier to make open 3s than guarded 3s) quicker to double the post, easier to help on dribble penetration. There's a reason we were 122nd in pts per game, and outside the top 50 in KenPom on offense, when we were top 10 the year before.