America Failed

[BiggDick]

Ousdahl,

Friendly advice from someone who has been in your shoes (board wise):

You've got to accept that you're a big part of the problem. It's your behavior. And Trad calling you out for it isn't gross. It's what happens when adults act like children around other adults.

People will give you a chance to turn it around here (I think), but it's going to take some self reflection and change in behavior (and probably some time away) for that to occur.

Trying to tell everyone how they're the problem too isn't going to help. No matter how much you believe it to be true (or even if it is true).

That's my civil advice.

This.

what did I post that was so controversial this time around?

I'm willing to take responsibility for it, and for whatever else I've done that ever offended anyone.

But at some point, certain posters have to stop blaming me for their own inability to just act cool.

[DeletedUser]

I'm not going to do this with you. Not in a mean way, but in a "you've got to figure this stuff out on your own" kind of way.

That's me being cool. Which I've been trying to be, as much as possible, on non basketball topics.

Gloves are off on the basketball board. I won't go to personal attacks, but the dumb will be pointed out as dumb. I expect the same towards me as well (from you and everyone else).

That's as good as I can do for now. I hope you figure all this out and come out on the other end a better person for it. I don’t think your current posting style lends itself well to that outcome, so it's going to take some time and some change.

[Overlander]

Ousdahl,

Friendly advice from someone who has been in your shoes (board wise):

You've got to accept that you're a big part of the problem. It's your behavior. And Trad calling you out for it isn't gross. It's what happens when adults act like children around other adults.

People will give you a chance to turn it around here (I think), but it's going to take some self reflection and change in behavior (and probably some time away) for that to occur.

Trying to tell everyone how they're the problem too isn't going to help. No matter how much you believe it to be true (or even if it is true).

That's my civil advice.

This.

what did I post that was so controversial this time around?

I'm willing to take responsibility for it, and for whatever else I've done that ever offended anyone.

But at some point, certain posters have to stop blaming me for their own inability to just act cool.

I see Illy reaching out with experienced advice.
Maybe just take a moment, and remember 3 year ago Illy.

[BiggDick]

The motherfuckers had a front row seat at the Presidential Inauguration and the guy who bitches about evil rich people more than anyone on this site has to ask "who is controlling Trump's puppet strings"? Insert giant eye roll GIF here.

it's not exactly like Biden or Harris or Dems was/were tough on Evil Rich People, tho.

I'm afraid the two-party system offers little more than the illusion of choice.

This of course is over simplified.
It depends on your definition of tough. It doesn't fit your version of tough i'm sure...but it was quite a bit tougher than trump's administration when it comes to paying taxes.

I think people have an issue with your doing what Gutter used to be the master of ( like a decade plus ago ) -- any thing that leaned a bit one way he'd have to counter balance with any sort of possible argument the other way -- even if the argument wasn't sound.

thanks.

this actually discusses the substance of the...well, discussion!

You mention Biden being quite a bit tougher than Trump when it comes to paying taxes (presumably on Evil Rich People, since that's what we're talking about here.

Biden, early last year when he was still the Dem candidate, proposed a billionaire tax.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/15/bidens- ... -work.html

Biden also campaigned on ending Trump-era tax cuts, which were otherwise set to expire later this year:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-e ... rcna157099

Harris's campaign was similar to Biden's tho maybe not as tough about things like capital gains taxes:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics ... index.html

In that regard, it's a bummer they didn't get elected so they could pursue those policies.

But, for that matter - and this is important here - it's a bummer they didn't pursue such polices the last 4 years already.

In light of that, I dunno just how much tougher Biden and Harris really were about taxing the wealthy.

Now, I'll give you the gutter analogy. Maybe I go for devil's advocate downer pity. Maybe it do it more, or more often, than I should!

But from my point of view, I think others tend to get more upset with me for challenging their own partisan views, that Biden would have been so much tougher on Evil Rich People than Trump, despite Biden doing little to counter things like Trump era tax cuts when Biden was in the big chair.

I think the less sound argument, in fact, is insisting Dems would have been such a better counter to the power and influence and wealth of Evil Rich People, despite those facts.

But instead of just admitting things like, "oh shit maybe Dems aren't as good as I thought," we get the "you're broken, you need to change the way you behave, and it's your fault I treat you like this" kinda bullshit.

Or, if my sources and analysis is incomplete, and there's more I'm missing, please do provide it, and I'll admit, "oh shit, maybe Dems are more good than I thought."

[Overlander]

JFC

[BiggDick]

This.

what did I post that was so controversial this time around?

I'm willing to take responsibility for it, and for whatever else I've done that ever offended anyone.

But at some point, certain posters have to stop blaming me for their own inability to just act cool.

I see Illy reaching out with experienced advice.
Maybe just take a moment, and remember 3 year ago Illy.

just take a moment and listen to RIGHT NOW illy.

He's doubling down on this "it's up to ous do to better but not anyone else" kinda unilateral bullshit.

I can take responsibility for my own behavior, but I can't for anyone else's. At some point I think it's up to the aggrieved posters to figure out own their own how to just be cool, even if we disagree sometimes.

I really do think all this fuss comes from little more than a few posters being so ill-equipped to withstand any challenges at all to their own political views.

[KUTradition]

giggles

this has zero to do with politics

i made that perfectly clear

do better…or keep being this version of you, since you seem to be on the kind of roll everyone appreciates

[pdub]

"But, for that matter - and this is important here - it's a bummer they didn't pursue such polices the last 4 years already"

They did at different levels.
Do you realize how our government works?
( or maybe I should say, used to work )

[Overlander]

what did I post that was so controversial this time around?

I'm willing to take responsibility for it, and for whatever else I've done that ever offended anyone.

But at some point, certain posters have to stop blaming me for their own inability to just act cool.

I see Illy reaching out with experienced advice.
Maybe just take a moment, and remember 3 year ago Illy.

I really do think all this fuss comes from little more than a few posters being so ill-equipped to withstand any challenges at all to their own political views.

Hey! You win!
Great job!

[BiggDick]

nah man.

we all loose.

[BiggDick]

"But, for that matter - and this is important here - it's a bummer they didn't pursue such polices the last 4 years already"

They did at different levels.
Do you realize how our government works?
( or maybe I should say, used to work )

genuinely curious here.

If we can actually kinda keep this discussion on topic, and if I may ask...

what different levels?

[Overlander]

Having ignored Ousy, I don't care to read anymore of his "just asking the questions".

The great thing is, I can see that he posted and know exactly what he is saying...every fucking time.....

[pdub]

"But, for that matter - and this is important here - it's a bummer they didn't pursue such polices the last 4 years already"

They did at different levels.
Do you realize how our government works?
( or maybe I should say, used to work )

genuinely curious here.

If we can actually kinda keep this discussion on topic, and if I may ask...

what different levels?

Just go back and read about the American Families Plan and then come back without your general, "oh well it would have been nice had they figured out how to actually get that instituted" because you don't understand how our government works ( or maybe, I should say, used to work )

[pdub]

This USED to be on the whitehouse.org site but, well, you know, they kinda had a make over yesterday:

The American Families Plan:

Increase the top tax rate on the wealthiest Americans to 39.6 percent. One of the 2017 tax cut’s clearest giveaways to the wealthy was cutting the top income tax rate from 39.6 percent to 37 percent, exclusively benefitting the wealthiest households—those in the top one percent. This rate cut alone gives a couple with $2 million in taxable an annual tax cut of more than $36,400. The President’s plan restores the top tax bracket to what it was before the 2017 law, returning the rate to 39.6 percent, applying only to those within the top one percent.

End capital income tax breaks and other loopholes for the very top. The President’s tax reform will end one of the most unfair aspects of our tax system: that the tax rate the wealthy pay on capital gains and dividends is less than the tax rate that many middle-class families pay on their wages. Households making over $1 million—the top 0.3 percent of all households—will pay the same 39.6 percent rate on all their income, equalizing the rate paid on investment returns and wages. Moreover, the President would eliminate the loophole that allows the wealthiest Americans to entirely escape tax on their wealth by passing it down to heirs. Today, our tax laws allow these accumulated gains to be passed down across generations untaxed, exacerbating inequality. The President’s plan will close this loophole, ending the practice of “stepping-up” the basis for gains in excess of $1 million ($2.5 million per couple when combined with existing real estate exemptions) and making sure the gains are taxed if the property is not donated to charity. The reform will be designed with protections so that family-owned businesses and farms will not have to pay taxes when given to heirs who continue to run the business. Without these changes, billions in capital income would continue to escape taxation entirely.

The President is also calling on Congress to close the carried interest loophole so that hedge fund partners will pay ordinary income rates on their income just like every other worker. While equalizing tax rates on wages and capital gains will address this disparity, permanently eliminating carried interest is an important structural change that is necessary to ensure that we have a tax code that treats all workers fairly. The President would also end the special real estate tax break—that allows real estate investors to defer taxation when they exchange property—for gains greater than $500,000, and the President would also permanently extend the current limitation in place that restricts large, excess business losses, 80 percent of which benefits those making over $1 million.

Finally, high-income workers and investors generally pay a 3.8 percent Medicare tax on their earnings, but the application is inconsistent across taxpayers due to holes in the law. The President’s tax reform would apply the taxes consistently to those making over $400,000, ensuring that all high-income Americans pay the same Medicare taxes.

[pdub]

If you're feeling like that wasn't Evil and Rich enough - then would this work?

March 2022.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-polic ... get-biden/

"The “Billionaire Minimum Income Tax” plan under President Biden would establish a 20 percent minimum tax rate on all American households worth more than $100 million, the document says. The majority of new revenue raised by the tax would come from billionaires."

[BiggDick]

oh hey! Overlander ignored me! Maybe that can set an example. And maybe he really does ignore me - which is to say, maybe he really does just leave me alone. And for the record, it really is a shame, but I'm hoping it might end up being for the better in the long run.

as for bringing up the American Families Plan, thanks again for the discussion pdub, and for providing all that info. Cuz, yea, I searched too, and noticed that page on the Whitehouse.gov site now is 404...lolsigh.

It seems like a lot of good ideas in these plans tho. I'm not sure either plan ever got thru the house/senate/exec and enacted into law - did it? I can't find anywhere that definitively says it did.

If they did, then it's a bummer Biden/Harris didn't get more credit, or didn't leverage them better as campaign talking points.

If they didn't, I dunno whether to blame pubs who likely preventing it from passing, or dems for not managing to somehow get it done when they had the big chair anyway.

[pdub]

"blame pubs who likely preventing it from passing" is the correct route here if you think those ideas were good and should have been passed.

[MICHHAWK]

America held a free and open election. we keep doing that. and America can never fail.

[pdub]

Incorrect.

[Overlander]

we keep doing that. and America can never fail.

THERE is the rub....