This virus is hanging around and mutating thanks to unvaccinated people.
This doesn't change anything.
That's not science. The virus was already mutating before the vaccine, and continues to mutate after the vaccine. It can mutate in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Vaccination doesn't prevent infection or transmission nearly as well as it prevents serious complications.
The virus is hanging around because it's a virus and that's what they do. We can't eradicate the flu virus either and we've had good vaccines for that virus for decades.
Someone (Trad i think) shared a very good article earlier that had some insights into how/why/if/etc viruses mutate. You should check it out.
serious, long-term disease is where variants arise...it’s all about viral load.
vaccination greatly reduces that load in the overwhelming majority of cases...aka, the unvaccinated are much more likely to be reservoirs of mutation and variants than are the vaccinated
you keep making these blanket statements, which are misleading at best
quit comparing covid to the flu. they’re both infectious corona viruses, but that’s really where their similarity ends
This virus is hanging around and mutating thanks to unvaccinated people.
This doesn't change anything.
That's not science. The virus was already mutating before the vaccine, and continues to mutate after the vaccine. It can mutate in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Vaccination doesn't prevent infection or transmission nearly as well as it prevents serious complications.
The virus is hanging around because it's a virus and that's what they do. We can't eradicate the flu virus either and we've had good vaccines for that virus for decades.
Someone (Trad i think) shared a very good article earlier that had some insights into how/why/if/etc viruses mutate. You should check it out.
serious, long-term disease is where variants arise...it’s all about viral load.
vaccination greatly reduces that load in the overwhelming majority of cases...aka, the unvaccinated are much more likely to be reservoirs of mutation and variants than are the vaccinated
you keep making these blanket statements, which are misleading at best
quit comparing covid to the flu. they’re both infectious corona viruses, but that’s really where their similarity ends
The similarity is that both viruses can kill ya. It’s not complicated.
BTW are there enough Greek letters for all the variants that will eventually occur?
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:15 am
by ousdahl
Which variant is hotter:
the delta delta delta variant, or the chi-o variant?
That's not science. The virus was already mutating before the vaccine, and continues to mutate after the vaccine. It can mutate in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Vaccination doesn't prevent infection or transmission nearly as well as it prevents serious complications.
The virus is hanging around because it's a virus and that's what they do. We can't eradicate the flu virus either and we've had good vaccines for that virus for decades.
Someone (Trad i think) shared a very good article earlier that had some insights into how/why/if/etc viruses mutate. You should check it out.
serious, long-term disease is where variants arise...it’s all about viral load.
vaccination greatly reduces that load in the overwhelming majority of cases...aka, the unvaccinated are much more likely to be reservoirs of mutation and variants than are the vaccinated
you keep making these blanket statements, which are misleading at best
quit comparing covid to the flu. they’re both infectious corona viruses, but that’s really where their similarity ends
Covid and the flu have similar fatality rates according to the WHO. .10% for flu and .14% for covid.
Both will require yearly vaccines for protection. Which is also a similarity.
Not sure where you or the WHO are getting your numbers, or what I'm missing, but 4.28 million people have died from Covid globally, a 0.14% fatality rate would mean more than 3 billion people had contracted the virus. Every place I look has numbers at about 200 million. Now, that number is probably low, since a lot of asymptomatic people are missed and there are poor countries, but we're talking about 15 times more people. And that would mean that about 1 out of every 2 people on the planet had contracted covid, and that's not the case.
So you need to revisit that number, site your source, or stop reporting it.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ has the global rate at 2.3% and the US at 2%. I'm willing to admit that the REAL number is lower because of insufficient testing and asymptomatic infections, but there's not way, that it's 1/20th of this number. There aren't 20 fold more infections than what's being reported. I mean, at least in the US, there CAN'T be...it's mathematically impossible because there aren't enough people.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:17 am
by Deleted User 863
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:06 am
those viral load measurements are following infection, not long-term
vaccination greatly reduces the risk of severe, long-term infection...and hence, long-term viral load
edit: also, unless i’m mistaken, the data used for the claim of similar viral loads is from “breakthrough” infections
Sorry. Wasn't trying to be obtuse. I just misunderstood you about long term cases. Are you specifically speaking of the "long haulers"? Or do you simply mean the difference in recover time where the virus is still in replication?
Yes, similar viral loads in breakthrough cases. Likely because most vaccinated individuals who become infected but are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms don't ever get tested for covid so it's hard to study/report on those cases.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:19 am
by PhDhawk
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:06 am
those viral load measurements are following infection, not long-term
vaccination greatly reduces the risk of severe, long-term infection...and hence, long-term viral load
edit: also, unless i’m mistaken, the data used for the claim of similar viral loads is from “breakthrough” infections
It's also done by PCR, which tells you how many virus genomes are present, but it doesn't tell you how many of them are viable and infectious. Presumably, if a healthy vaccinated person is winning the fight between immune system and virus, that fewer of those genomes will become new infectious viral particles that will be released.
Also, like trad said, they're going to clear it faster, so even if the peak viral load is the same, the area under the curve, the total viral load won't be.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:20 am
by PhDhawk
ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:15 am
Which variant is hotter:
the delta delta delta variant, or the chi-o variant?
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:06 am
those viral load measurements are following infection, not long-term
vaccination greatly reduces the risk of severe, long-term infection...and hence, long-term viral load
edit: also, unless i’m mistaken, the data used for the claim of similar viral loads is from “breakthrough” infections
Sorry. Wasn't trying to be obtuse. I just misunderstood you about long term cases. Are you specifically speaking of the "long haulers"? Or do you simply mean the difference in recover time where the virus is still in replication?
Yes, similar viral loads in breakthrough cases. Likely because most vaccinated individuals who become infected but are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms don't ever get tested for covid so it's hard to study/report on those cases.
long-haul covid cases are defined by long-term (perhaps permanent) lingering effects and damage to the body
i’m talking about viral replication an transmissibility, which is what matters when discussing variants...right now, it looks like the time frame of relevance is around 20 days post-infection
