Kansas Crimson

The problem is that proof of vaccination is a piece of paper i could create in 5minutes with my 2nd graders school supplies. We needed to plan for this long ago. Maybe next round of vaccinations they will have something in place.

If vaccines should not be mandated, then health care providers should have the discretion as to who gets ventilators. Personal responsibility.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:05 am The problem is that proof of vaccination is a piece of paper i could create in 5minutes with my 2nd graders school supplies. We needed to plan for this long ago. Maybe next round of vaccinations they will have something in place.

But this isn't the point; on a big scale, a tiny amount of vaccine fraud won't matter. The benefits of increased adoption rates vastly outweigh the detriments of a little fraud.

Leawood wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:12 am If vaccines should not be mandated, then health care providers should have the discretion as to who gets ventilators. Personal responsibility.

In spirit, I agree with you. And if there comes a true shortage of a scarce resource, maybe that factors in.

BUT, what I come back to when I think about that is that stupid, selfish, Q-chugging antivaxxers have three year olds, too. Those three year olds didn't make a bad choice.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:13 am9

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:05 am The problem is that proof of vaccination is a piece of paper i could create in 5minutes with my 2nd graders school supplies. We needed to plan for this long ago. Maybe next round of vaccinations they will have something in place.

But this isn't the point; on a big scale, a tiny amount of vaccine fraud won't matter. The benefits of increased adoption rates vastly outweigh the detriments of a little fraud.

When you say adoption rates, do you mean businesses only allowing vaxxed people or do you mean people choosing to get the vaccine?

I do not think vaccine "passports"/requirements will move the needle for many of the unvaccinated in our country. They will just boycott those businesses.

CNN showed a poll that the majority of unvaccinated will likely never get the shots. There is a small portion that "hasn't gotten around to it yet", but come on, it's been available to everyone for almost 6months. And then there is another portion who when polled fell into the group "says they are waiting, but have no intention to ever get it" and they just say they will to avoid public ridicule.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:14 am

Leawood wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:12 am If vaccines should not be mandated, then health care providers should have the discretion as to who gets ventilators. Personal responsibility.

In spirit, I agree with you. And if there comes a true shortage of a scarce resource, maybe that factors in.

BUT, what I come back to when I think about that is that stupid, selfish, Q-chugging antivaxxers have three year olds, too. Those three year olds didn't make a bad choice.

Healthcare providers already have had to choose in many scenarios between who gets what. They decide based on various factors such as liklihood to survive, age, etc.

But lets be real, it isn't the vaccinated needing ventilators in 99% of the cases.

Nothing like threatening people who are trying to keep your kid/s safe/healthy.
Example #4,439,823 of why I say we live in a fucked up country.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:19 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:13 am9

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:05 am The problem is that proof of vaccination is a piece of paper i could create in 5minutes with my 2nd graders school supplies. We needed to plan for this long ago. Maybe next round of vaccinations they will have something in place.

But this isn't the point; on a big scale, a tiny amount of vaccine fraud won't matter. The benefits of increased adoption rates vastly outweigh the detriments of a little fraud.

When you say adoption rates, do you mean businesses only allowing vaxxed people or do you mean people choosing to get the vaccine?

I do not think vaccine "passports"/requirements will move the needle for many of the unvaccinated in our country. They will just boycott those businesses.

CNN showed a poll that the majority of unvaccinated will likely never get the shots. There is a small portion that "hasn't gotten around to it yet", but come on, it's been available to everyone for almost 6months. And then there is another portion who when polled fell into the group "says they are waiting, but have no intention to ever get it" and they just say they will to avoid public ridicule.

Each SEC university saying that attendance of on-campus sports events requires proof of vaccination might, itself, stop the delta wave in its tracks.

NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:25 am Nothing like threatening people who are trying to keep your kid/s safe/healthy.
Example #4,439,823 of why I say we live in a fucked up country.

these are the people we’re supposed to have empathy for when they get sick and/or die from covid?

fuck em

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:05 am The problem is that proof of vaccination is a piece of paper i could create in 5minutes with my 2nd graders school supplies. We needed to plan for this long ago. Maybe next round of vaccinations they will have something in place.

I think we could develop a passport app within weeks. Won't prevent 100% of fraud but it would help, and I think businesses also want it.

(I don't know that the goal is to prevent 100% of fraud, anyway.)

we could’ve likely had apps 6 months ago, but for the sQuirts of the country

(i’m adopting Japhy’s moniker of reference cuz it’s awesome)

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:33 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:05 am The problem is that proof of vaccination is a piece of paper i could create in 5minutes with my 2nd graders school supplies. We needed to plan for this long ago. Maybe next round of vaccinations they will have something in place.

I think we could develop a passport app within weeks. Won't prevent 100% of fraud but it would help, and I think businesses also want it.

(I don't know that the goal is to prevent 100% of fraud, anyway.)

I am sure we could (and probably should), but the fact 1 million people have gotten 3 shots leads me to believe our tracking and record keeping for the entire process was sub par.

The main goal was getting needles in arms. People in the poorer part of my town were claiming they were giving J&J vaccines with no real proof of ID or very little scrutiny. Just pull up get a shot and go.

And of course we targeted the black communities with the J&J vaccine which turned out to do even more to hurt that communities vaccine hesitancy since it got pulled temporarily and appears to be less effective. That was a mistake. Thinking that community was less likely to show up for a 2nd shot was shortsighted and borderline reckless.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:46 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:33 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:05 am The problem is that proof of vaccination is a piece of paper i could create in 5minutes with my 2nd graders school supplies. We needed to plan for this long ago. Maybe next round of vaccinations they will have something in place.

I think we could develop a passport app within weeks. Won't prevent 100% of fraud but it would help, and I think businesses also want it.

(I don't know that the goal is to prevent 100% of fraud, anyway.)

I am sure we could (and probably should), but the fact 1 million people have gotten 3 shots leads me to believe our tracking and record keeping for the entire process was sub par.

I think it is more about filtering out BS vax cards (if we even care).

from the Atlantic

... The family’s predicament is a microcosm of the dangerous and uncertain moment so many Americans face as the pandemic once again changes course. The COVID-19 vaccines have done an extraordinary job of stamping out disease and death. But as the hypertransmissible Delta variant hammers the United States, the greatest hardships are being taken on by the unvaccinated, a population that includes some 50 million children younger than age 12. Across the country, pediatric cases of COVID-19 are skyrocketing alongside cases among unimmunized adults; child hospitalizations have now reached an all-time pandemic high. In the last week of July, nearly 72,000 new coronavirus cases were reported in kids—almost a fifth of all total known infections in the U.S., and a rough doubling of the previous week’s stats. “It’s the biggest jump in the pandemic so far” among children, Lee Beers, the president of the American Academy of Pediatrics, told me. Last week, that same statistic climbed to nearly 94,000.

The most serious pediatric cases are among the pandemic’s worst to date. In the South, where communities have struggled to get shots into arms and enthusiasm for masks has been spotty, intensive-care units in children’s hospitals are filling to capacity. In several states, health workers say that kids—many of them previously completely healthy—are coming in sicker and deteriorating faster than ever before, with no obvious end in sight...

If this had started out mainly impacting children this entire thing would have gone a different route. Now it's too late. Children are going to die.

I am not going to lie, i have considered not sending my kids to school again this fall. We will do the mask thing, but that is only part of the battle. Weekly testing would be nice. Full FDA approval and children under the age of 12 getting shots will be a big step once we get there (hopefully we get there with the age aspect, full FDA approval is a foregone conclusion it sounds like).

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:49 am from the Atlantic

... The family’s predicament is a microcosm of the dangerous and uncertain moment so many Americans face as the pandemic once again changes course. The COVID-19 vaccines have done an extraordinary job of stamping out disease and death. But as the hypertransmissible Delta variant hammers the United States, the greatest hardships are being taken on by the unvaccinated, a population that includes some 50 million children younger than age 12. Across the country, pediatric cases of COVID-19 are skyrocketing alongside cases among unimmunized adults; child hospitalizations have now reached an all-time pandemic high. In the last week of July, nearly 72,000 new coronavirus cases were reported in kids—almost a fifth of all total known infections in the U.S., and a rough doubling of the previous week’s stats. “It’s the biggest jump in the pandemic so far” among children, Lee Beers, the president of the American Academy of Pediatrics, told me. Last week, that same statistic climbed to nearly 94,000.

The most serious pediatric cases are among the pandemic’s worst to date. In the South, where communities have struggled to get shots into arms and enthusiasm for masks has been spotty, intensive-care units in children’s hospitals are filling to capacity. In several states, health workers say that kids—many of them previously completely healthy—are coming in sicker and deteriorating faster than ever before, with no obvious end in sight...

I'm no virologist, but I'd think there's a compounding danger in the virus bouncing around among kids.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:53 am If this had started out mainly impacting children this entire thing would have gone a different route. Now it's too late. Children are going to die.

I am not going to lie, i have considered not sending my kids to school again this fall. We will do the mask thing, but that is only part of the battle. Weekly testing would be nice. Full FDA approval and children under the age of 12 getting shots will be a big step once we get there (hopefully we get there with the age aspect, full FDA approval is a foregone conclusion it sounds like).

I'm not to the point of keeping my 11-year-old home, but yes she'll get the shot immediately after it's available to her.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:56 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:53 am If this had started out mainly impacting children this entire thing would have gone a different route. Now it's too late. Children are going to die.

I am not going to lie, i have considered not sending my kids to school again this fall. We will do the mask thing, but that is only part of the battle. Weekly testing would be nice. Full FDA approval and children under the age of 12 getting shots will be a big step once we get there (hopefully we get there with the age aspect, full FDA approval is a foregone conclusion it sounds like).

I'm not to the point of keeping my 11-year-old home, but yes she'll get the shot immediately after it's available to her.

The fact my daughter did well with homeschooling makes the decision tougher.

For now we are sending them both. If shits starts getting bad and hospitals start filling up with kids then it'll be a wrap...hopefully we don't get to that point, but it seems like thats the path we are heading.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:59 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:56 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:53 am If this had started out mainly impacting children this entire thing would have gone a different route. Now it's too late. Children are going to die.

I am not going to lie, i have considered not sending my kids to school again this fall. We will do the mask thing, but that is only part of the battle. Weekly testing would be nice. Full FDA approval and children under the age of 12 getting shots will be a big step once we get there (hopefully we get there with the age aspect, full FDA approval is a foregone conclusion it sounds like).

I'm not to the point of keeping my 11-year-old home, but yes she'll get the shot immediately after it's available to her.

The fact my daughter did well with homeschooling makes the decision tougher.

For now we are sending them both. If shits starts getting bad and hospitals start filling up with kids then it'll be a wrap...hopefully we don't get to that point, but it seems like thats the path we are heading.

Mine doesn't like to read. So I need her to be in school, where she does so as a matter of course. Belongs in a different thread, but reading is a tough one because making her do it turns it into a punishment (with all that goes with that).

And yes, we do all of the things like encouraging different genres, rewards, etc. It just hasn't stuck yet.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:53 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:49 am from the Atlantic

... The family’s predicament is a microcosm of the dangerous and uncertain moment so many Americans face as the pandemic once again changes course. The COVID-19 vaccines have done an extraordinary job of stamping out disease and death. But as the hypertransmissible Delta variant hammers the United States, the greatest hardships are being taken on by the unvaccinated, a population that includes some 50 million children younger than age 12. Across the country, pediatric cases of COVID-19 are skyrocketing alongside cases among unimmunized adults; child hospitalizations have now reached an all-time pandemic high. In the last week of July, nearly 72,000 new coronavirus cases were reported in kids—almost a fifth of all total known infections in the U.S., and a rough doubling of the previous week’s stats. “It’s the biggest jump in the pandemic so far” among children, Lee Beers, the president of the American Academy of Pediatrics, told me. Last week, that same statistic climbed to nearly 94,000.

The most serious pediatric cases are among the pandemic’s worst to date. In the South, where communities have struggled to get shots into arms and enthusiasm for masks has been spotty, intensive-care units in children’s hospitals are filling to capacity. In several states, health workers say that kids—many of them previously completely healthy—are coming in sicker and deteriorating faster than ever before, with no obvious end in sight...

I'm no virologist, but I'd think there's a compounding danger in the virus bouncing around among kids.

yup, even from just prolonged exposure