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Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:33 am
by Deleted User 89
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:28 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:26 am
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:49 am
A little off the topic, but instead of bailing out the airlines themselves, what if we hired all these workers that WE ALL want to protect/help and started a nationwide initiative to move to greener energy options? This is the perfect time to do something large scale like that since we are already spending money like crazy and handcuffing future generations..at least do it for something more worthwhile than saving billionaire airline stakeholders ass. New airlines will form if it is a profitable business now and moving forward. I doubt it would take very long tbh.
Hire them to do what? Where? Paid for by what? Insured by whom?
I would guess that wind turbine manufacture and maintenance isn't so different from aircraft.
many infrastructure projects require the same basic skills
my current lab-based position is an entirely different beast from what i was doing in academia, but the basic lab skills (record keeping, precision, attention to detail...proper use of a fucking pipette) still hold true. they’re just being applied differently
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:35 am
by Deleted User 310
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:26 am
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:49 am
A little off the topic, but instead of bailing out the airlines themselves, what if we hired all these workers that WE ALL want to protect/help and started a nationwide initiative to move to greener energy options? This is the perfect time to do something large scale like that since we are already spending money like crazy and handcuffing future generations..at least do it for something more worthwhile than saving billionaire airline stakeholders ass. New airlines will form if it is a profitable business now and moving forward. I doubt it would take very long tbh.
Hire them to do what? Where? Paid for by what? Insured by whom?
Hire them to do jobs/tasks. Whereever needed. Paid for by the same people paying for the corporate bailout (US!).
Have you seen what occurs with the other bailouts we have done? The rich get bailed out. Some low-middle class workers get saved, but many don't. Then we are stuck with the bill.
Will they pay the bailout money back? Doubtful. Because the airline industry is sort of fucked as currently configured.
How much of their business model is based on corporate travel? A shit ton. You know what people do now? Zoom conference calls, rather than fly 2 hours away for a business meeting in person and then fly 2 hours back.
Travel / Hospitality and tourism industries will never be the same. They will survive as a whole, but they will have to adapt...and undoubtedly they will contract and some/many will fail.
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:37 am
by jfish26
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:35 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:26 am
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:49 am
A little off the topic, but instead of bailing out the airlines themselves, what if we hired all these workers that WE ALL want to protect/help and started a nationwide initiative to move to greener energy options? This is the perfect time to do something large scale like that since we are already spending money like crazy and handcuffing future generations..at least do it for something more worthwhile than saving billionaire airline stakeholders ass. New airlines will form if it is a profitable business now and moving forward. I doubt it would take very long tbh.
Hire them to do what? Where? Paid for by what? Insured by whom?
Hire them to do jobs/tasks. Whereever needed. Paid for by the same people paying for the corporate bailout (US!).
Have you seen what occurs with the other bailouts we have done? The rich get bailed out. Some low-middle class workers get saved, but many don't. Then we are stuck with the bill.
Will they pay the bailout money back? Doubtful. Because the airline industry is sort of fucked as currently configured.
How much of their business model is based on corporate travel? A shit ton. You know what people do now? Zoom conference calls, rather than fly 2 hours away for a business meeting in person and then fly 2 hours back.
Travel / Hospitality and tourism industries will never be the same. They will survive as a whole, but they will have to adapt...and undoubtedly they will contract and some/many will fail.
Yeah. I don't think business travel will ever again look like it did.
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:44 am
by Deleted User 310
Make travel/energy options more green. Update schools. The list is endless of what we could do if we are going to spend spend spend. I would much rather do it on other things that have long term positive impacts.
Windturbines are a big thing like others pointed out.
If we are ever going to move to fully electric cars that is something that will need significant infrastructure for charging stations.
Make sure every single school has AC/Heat and reliable internet for learning....this pandemic has also taught us that maybe we need more schools with less kids in each classroom/building, rather than giant schools...that may also indirectly help the issue of school shootings. Teachers an administrators knowing their students better so that issues can be identified before it is too late.
Update water facilities so that our citizens have clean drinking water everywhere.
Anything but give money to make sure the rich corporations can keep getting richer even though their business is failing.
Rent/mortgage assistance for workers impacted by airline industry and other industries makes sense as well imo. Becuase as has been pointed out a lump sum stimulus check for a couple thousand doesn't last long.
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:00 am
by Deleted User 89
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:35 am
Travel / Hospitality and tourism industries will never be the same. They will survive as a whole, but they will have to adapt...and undoubtedly they will contract and some/many will fail.
SIL works/worked as a corporate event planner
her job is basically over - corporate meetings done in the classic way are done. corporate getaways are done, largely because US citizens aren’t permitted entrance without quarantine, if at all right now.
collateral damage
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:02 am
by twocoach
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:28 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:26 am
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:49 am
A little off the topic, but instead of bailing out the airlines themselves, what if we hired all these workers that WE ALL want to protect/help and started a nationwide initiative to move to greener energy options? This is the perfect time to do something large scale like that since we are already spending money like crazy and handcuffing future generations..at least do it for something more worthwhile than saving billionaire airline stakeholders ass. New airlines will form if it is a profitable business now and moving forward. I doubt it would take very long tbh.
Hire them to do what? Where? Paid for by what? Insured by whom?
I would guess that wind turbine manufacture and maintenance isn't so different from aircraft.
Are there 750,000 job openings in those fields right now?
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:03 am
by Deleted User 89
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:44 am
Make travel/energy options more green. Update schools. The list is endless of what we could do if we are going to spend spend spend. I would much rather do it on other things that have long term positive impacts.
Windturbines are a big thing like others pointed out.
If we are ever going to move to fully electric cars that is something that will need significant infrastructure for charging stations.
Make sure every single school has AC/Heat and reliable internet for learning....this pandemic has also taught us that maybe we need more schools with less kids in each classroom/building, rather than giant schools...that may also indirectly help the issue of school shootings. Teachers an administrators knowing their students better so that issues can be identified before it is too late.
Update water facilities so that our citizens have clean drinking water everywhere.
Anything but give money to make sure the rich corporations can keep getting richer even though their business is failing.
Rent/mortgage assistance for workers impacted by airline industry and other industries makes sense as well imo. Becuase as has been pointed out a lump sum stimulus check for a couple thousand doesn't last long.
the sad thing, is that many progressives/liberals/dems were calling for these kinds of investments prior to covid
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:03 am
by Sparko
Green bullet train travel should be a no brainer. Need to invest in the things the GOP has resisted for decades. Solar grids, mass transit, green energy, health care, education.
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:04 am
by Deleted User 89
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:02 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:28 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:26 am
Hire them to do what? Where? Paid for by what? Insured by whom?
I would guess that wind turbine manufacture and maintenance isn't so different from aircraft.
Are there 750,000 job openings in those fields right now?
there aren’t because those initiatives haven’t been...initiated
a lot of those things would fall under the green new deal
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:07 am
by Deleted User 89
and i’ll just throw this caveat out here re: electric cars
we can’t trade one problem (fossil fuel and emissions) for another (batteries)
right now, there is no way to responsibly deal with electric car batteries. myself, as well as a number of family members have resisted going that route specifically because of this. we can’t just do with used batteries what we do with used nuclear waste...bury it in the ground and cross our fingers
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:10 am
by Deleted User 310
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:00 am
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:35 am
Travel / Hospitality and tourism industries will never be the same. They will survive as a whole, but they will have to adapt...and undoubtedly they will contract and some/many will fail.
SIL works/worked as a corporate event planner
her job is basically over - corporate meetings done in the classic way are done. corporate getaways are done, largely because US citizens aren’t permitted entrance without quarantine, if at all right now.
collateral damage
Same with my cousin.
Her mom and dad (my uncle and aunt) started the company anout 20 years ago after he stopped selling insurance. She took over 5+ years ago. Their niche was basically traveling to wherever a large company was going to have their corporate meetings or whatever and then making sure they had tables/chairs/etc all set up. Technology loaded and ready to go. Handouts and name tags organized and placed at each spot. Lunches/dinners coordinated. Etc.
Had to be making a decent amount of money based on her house.
Done. Although she is adapting and trying to find a new niche with the new normal....but she is one of those people that says covid isnt that bad. Pretty transparent as to why someone as smart as her would feel that way.
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:11 am
by twocoach
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:04 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:02 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:28 am
I would guess that wind turbine manufacture and maintenance isn't so different from aircraft.
Are there 750,000 job openings in those fields right now?
there aren’t because those initiatives haven’t been...initiated
a lot of those things would fall under the green new deal
Agreed. It will take a dramatic reshaping of a large number of industries, none of which will be completed in time to avoid financial ruin to hundreds of thousands of people employed in the airline industry if they go under in the next two months.
Many jobs in the coal industry, manufacturing industry etc... will simply cease to exist a generation or two from now.
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:11 am
by Deleted User 310
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:07 am
and i’ll just throw this caveat out here re: electric cars
we can’t trade one problem (fossil fuel and emissions) for another (batteries)
right now, there is no way to responsibly deal with electric car batteries. myself, as well as a number of family members have resisted going that route specifically because of this. we can’t just do with used batteries what we do with used nuclear waste...bury it in the ground and cross our fingers
Very good point.
Aren't they also having this same issue with windturbines once they go bad?
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:13 am
by Deleted User 310
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:11 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:04 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:02 am
Are there 750,000 job openings in those fields right now?
there aren’t because those initiatives haven’t been...initiated
a lot of those things would fall under the green new deal
Agreed. It will take a dramatic reshaping of a large number of industries, none of which will be completed in time to avoid financial ruin to hundreds of thousands of people employed in the airline industry if they go under in the next two months.
Many jobs in the coal industry, manufacturing industry etc... will simply cease to exist a generation or two from now.
But that isn't the point.
The airlines won't be fixed in 2 months either. Or maybe ever. Giving them money doesn't make people fly more. Or sit in the bars/restaurants in the airports and eat more.
Nobody that we want to help and protect are going to experience financial ruin by the airlines partially going under as long as we assist them until they can find a new job. We can even create those jobs for them....but handing the airlines money to float them for now does have negative impacts to our economy as well. The money has to come from somewhere. And many people are going to lose their jobs anyway.
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:31 am
by Deleted User 89
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:11 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:07 am
and i’ll just throw this caveat out here re: electric cars
we can’t trade one problem (fossil fuel and emissions) for another (batteries)
right now, there is no way to responsibly deal with electric car batteries. myself, as well as a number of family members have resisted going that route specifically because of this. we can’t just do with used batteries what we do with used nuclear waste...bury it in the ground and cross our fingers
Very good point.
Aren't they also having this same issue with windturbines once they go bad?
perhaps, but i’m inclined to think that much of what goes into a wind turbine can be recycled or repurposed. once batteries go bad, there is nothing to be done with them but dump them in a landfill. what do you do with your AAs when they’re done?
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:41 am
by twocoach
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:31 am
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:11 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:07 am
and i’ll just throw this caveat out here re: electric cars
we can’t trade one problem (fossil fuel and emissions) for another (batteries)
right now, there is no way to responsibly deal with electric car batteries. myself, as well as a number of family members have resisted going that route specifically because of this. we can’t just do with used batteries what we do with used nuclear waste...bury it in the ground and cross our fingers
Very good point.
Aren't they also having this same issue with windturbines once they go bad?
perhaps, but i’m inclined to think that much of what goes into a wind turbine can be recycled or repurposed. once batteries go bad, there is nothing to be done with them but dump them in a landfill. what do you do with your AAs when they’re done?
Seems like they are struggling to figure out what to do with the giant blades from old turbines that cannot be reused, cost a fortune to dismantle and haul away and take up massive amounts of space in a landfill.
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:59 am
by Deleted User 89
thanks for that
a quick search indicates that ~90% of turbines can be recycled or repurposed
i’m obviously biased, but the actual impact of old turbine blades is much less severe than that if old batteries (not that you were insinuating that).
and the blades can be recycled, but at a substantial cost...and it’s a much easier procedure than recycling electric car batteries (again, not that you were arguing either way).
seems to me that trump us missing the boat...all these outdated turbine blades might just be perfect for building a wall...
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:01 pm
by Deleted User 89
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:10 pm
by twocoach
Interesting article, thank you. It seems like we'll always be trading one bad thing for another. It's staggering the volume of waste and pollution we generate as a society.
Re: Dumbfuck in charge
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:22 pm
by Deleted User 89
twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Interesting article, thank you. It seems like we'll always be trading one bad thing for another. It's staggering the volume of waste and pollution we generate as a society.
indeed