Kansas Crimson

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:11 pm**

it was said numerous times throughout the season, by myself and others, but we got punnked because we labored to score

yes, having length and athleticism often makes scoring easier, but many of us lamented not having a batman to lead our assortment of robins

if you don’t have guys that can be counted on to go get a bucket, it really doesn’t matter how long or athletic you are

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:51 pm**

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:00 pm McMack is 6'10" but plays below the rim and doesn't have near the length of Dok, Withey, Cole, Embiid, Kaun, etc. Probably the best comparison is Markieff, and he played next to another big.

Wilson has the same wingspan as Svi, and those are two of the smallest guys we've ever played at the 4. Even Jackson was longer and he still got crushed by any team who had a decent interior 4.

Braun and Och are average height or a 2/3 and not particularly long.

Garrett is tall, but I've been told several times in this thread length doesn't matter for Guards.

And, where's BoH when you need him, no one had a big wingspan, this was a vitruvian looking lineup.

and, the proof is in the pudding. This team couldn't handle length. We got punked by every above average team we played with length...including historically bad losses at home and in the tourney...like shit you have to go back a hundred years to find worse examples for.

So, yes, it was one of the tallest starting lineups that Bill Self has had in 18 seasons here.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:52 pm**

When did length replace hip height? I want to go back to when that was question #1 about a player.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:58 pm**

i think B of H got abducted by aliens

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:00 pm**

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:51 pm
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:00 pm McMack is 6'10" but plays below the rim and doesn't have near the length of Dok, Withey, Cole, Embiid, Kaun, etc. Probably the best comparison is Markieff, and he played next to another big.

Wilson has the same wingspan as Svi, and those are two of the smallest guys we've ever played at the 4. Even Jackson was longer and he still got crushed by any team who had a decent interior 4.

Braun and Och are average height or a 2/3 and not particularly long.

Garrett is tall, but I've been told several times in this thread length doesn't matter for Guards.

And, where's BoH when you need him, no one had a big wingspan, this was a vitruvian looking lineup.

and, the proof is in the pudding. This team couldn't handle length. We got punked by every above average team we played with length...including historically bad losses at home and in the tourney...like shit you have to go back a hundred years to find worse examples for.
So, yes, it was one of the tallest starting lineups that Bill Self has had in 18 seasons here.

We lacked length, there's no other way to look at it. It was our achilles heel.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:03 pm**

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:00 pm
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:51 pm
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:00 pm McMack is 6'10" but plays below the rim and doesn't have near the length of Dok, Withey, Cole, Embiid, Kaun, etc. Probably the best comparison is Markieff, and he played next to another big.

Wilson has the same wingspan as Svi, and those are two of the smallest guys we've ever played at the 4. Even Jackson was longer and he still got crushed by any team who had a decent interior 4.

Braun and Och are average height or a 2/3 and not particularly long.

Garrett is tall, but I've been told several times in this thread length doesn't matter for Guards.

And, where's BoH when you need him, no one had a big wingspan, this was a vitruvian looking lineup.

and, the proof is in the pudding. This team couldn't handle length. We got punked by every above average team we played with length...including historically bad losses at home and in the tourney...like shit you have to go back a hundred years to find worse examples for.
So, yes, it was one of the tallest starting lineups that Bill Self has had in 18 seasons here.
We lacked length, there's no other way to look at it. It was our achilles heel.

Put me in the having 0 guards that were playmakers was our Achilles heel camp.

It is pretty clear that is what we are directly addressing this offseason.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:07 pm**

I just picture everyone on this message board is like 5'6" tall and hates hearing how length is a huge advantage.

"If coach woulda put me in, we'da won state, but instead he played that 6'7" guy and we lost."

These are the same people who hated Dok for 3.5 years.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:09 pm**

“For us to be a team that really has a chance to be a national contender, we need to get a little bit more athletic. We need to get a little longer and bigger, those sorts of things.”

Bill Self

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:12 pm**

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:07 pm I just picture everyone on this message board is like 5'6" tall and hates hearing how length is a huge advantage.

"If coach woulda put me in, we'da won state, but instead he played that 6'7" guy and we lost."

These are the same people who hated Dok for 3.5 years.

Again, length is better than no length, but how is it absolutely better than having playmakers? Would you not make a trade of Garrett/Braun for Mason/Graham?

I don't get the Markieff thing either? He played next to another big so that makes him longer than McCormack? In what world is Marcus Morris longer than Jalen Wilson? Or Markieff so much longer than McCormack?

Also, 2021 was one of the tallest starting lineups of the Self era.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:14 pm**

we need a decoder ring to decipher what is “coach speak” versus legit comments

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:15 pm**

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:12 pm
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:07 pm I just picture everyone on this message board is like 5'6" tall and hates hearing how length is a huge advantage.

"If coach woulda put me in, we'da won state, but instead he played that 6'7" guy and we lost."

These are the same people who hated Dok for 3.5 years.
In what world is Marcus Morris longer than Jalen Wilson?

Earth. The one with tape measures.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:17 pm**

The same place where playing two bigs makes you bigger than playing one big.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:20 pm**

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:15 pm
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:12 pm
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:07 pm I just picture everyone on this message board is like 5'6" tall and hates hearing how length is a huge advantage.

"If coach woulda put me in, we'da won state, but instead he played that 6'7" guy and we lost."

These are the same people who hated Dok for 3.5 years.
In what world is Marcus Morris longer than Jalen Wilson?
Earth. The one with tape measures.

If Jalen Wilson's wingspan measures shorter than 6'7" this summer, I will send you an Arby's gift card.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:24 pm**

And...the Morrii never lost by 34 points to a team because they had two tall players. Or loose at home by 25 cause texas had a couple long players. Or get swept by texas cause they had a couple tall players.

We didn't just lose to teams with length we got destroyed by them.

Kentucky had their worst team ever, and we only beat them by 3 because they had length.

We gave up 58 points to the two bigs from a 14 seed and almost lost.

Our biggest win was against the national champion Baylor team. No one over 6'8" played more than 15 mpg for them. Yet we get our asses kicked by a 6 seed.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:25 pm**

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:20 pm
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:15 pm
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:12 pm

In what world is Marcus Morris longer than Jalen Wilson?
Earth. The one with tape measures.
If Jalen Wilson's wingspan measures shorter than 6'7" this summer, I will send you an Arby's gift card.

I'm gonna drown that mother fucker in arby's sauce and I'm gonna dip all those curly fries in cheddar.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:28 pm**

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:24 pm And...the Morrii never lost by 34 points to a team because they had two tall players. Or loose at home by 25 cause texas had a couple long players. Or get swept by texas cause they had a couple tall players.

We didn't just lose to teams with length we got destroyed by them.

Kentucky had their worst team ever, and we only beat them by 3 because they had length.

We gave up 58 points to the two bigs from a 14 seed and almost lost.

Our biggest win was against the national champion Baylor team. No one over 6'8" played more than 15 mpg for them. Yet we get our asses kicked by a 6 seed.

Aren't you arguing against yourself by pointing out the National Champion's lack of length?

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:33 pm**

Mjl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:28 pm
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:24 pm And...the Morrii never lost by 34 points to a team because they had two tall players. Or loose at home by 25 cause texas had a couple long players. Or get swept by texas cause they had a couple tall players.

We didn't just lose to teams with length we got destroyed by them.

Kentucky had their worst team ever, and we only beat them by 3 because they had length.

We gave up 58 points to the two bigs from a 14 seed and almost lost.

Our biggest win was against the national champion Baylor team. No one over 6'8" played more than 15 mpg for them. Yet we get our asses kicked by a 6 seed.
Aren't you arguing against yourself by pointing out the National Champion's lack of length?

No.

I'm not saying you can't be good and small. But it's harder.

And, this roster, in this system, couldn't handle length.

That is the roster we're working with, that's the system we have, and we aren't getting bigger.

Is there a recruit that makes us match up better with the Mobley's...not that I've seen.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:42 pm**

Morrii countered length with elite skill, not athleticism or length. I want skilled players, please.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:46 pm**

I'd argue that with the guards length wasn't the problem. Braun and Ochai were out quicked and got blocked a lot because they're slow, not because they're short. They were usually longer than the people guarding them.

Guards need to be better athletes, bigs need the length.

Disclaimer of course again, all things being equal length is great.

But we didn't have guys that could get past other guys, and hopefully these short guards can do that.

Posted: **Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:49 pm**

Careful mjl, criticizing Braun isn’t allowed here.

Repeat after me:

More athletic than you give him credit for! Knows assignments! Weird jumper not a big deal! Floor burns! No ink! Good keed! Dog gonnit!

Kansas Crimson

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