Evil Rich People

[MICHHAWK]

worthless people mostly just hangout on the interwebz all day and blubber their yap.

[ousdahl]

I'm tempted to say something like, no human being is worthless. But that might be controversial, especially in this thread.

I'm also temped to point out to twocoach that at least this time around, I didn't challenge anyone to answer any questions, I just posted a tweet from an evil rich CEO of multiple companies who just came out and admitted that often little is needed of him. But if even illy can just say it's all good, then I just wanna say it's all good too.

but yea, there are some worthless CEOs. Just like there are some worthless cops, fast food workers, landscapers, etc. but the difference is, those CEOs still make 300+ times the average income more than workers, even if they're worthless. Not to mention their golden parachute severance packages if and when their worthless asses get fired.

I also heard a take about identifying precisely why CEOs are worthless: so often they're basically little more than rubber stamps for the boreds of directors anyway. They're not trying to execute the best business decisions and strategies for the business they officiate.

They're appointed by a bored, report to the bored, and just sign off on the vision of the bored, even tho all the bored tends to care about is not some objective concern for what's best for the business or its stakeholders as a whole, but is simply concern for their own accumulation of wealth.

[Deleted User 863]

Ok Kanye, no human being is worthless? How about Hitler?

[ousdahl]

Yea, like I said, controversial.

[ousdahl]

I suppose the point to take away from Elon’s tweet is, he really did just acknowledge that it’s not the top brass but the workers who ultimately make a business a business

whether Elon (and his Stans, and all the various other temporarily embarrassed millionaires) realize that enough to actually admit it tho is prob a matter of opinion.

Either way, should prob take that much to the Conservatives Almost Getting It thread

[Deleted User 863]

Yea, like I said, controversial.

Not controversial. Just stupid.

There are plenty of totally WORTHLESS human beings throughout the history of mankind.

[Deleted User 863]

I suppose the point to take away from Elon’s tweet is, he really did just acknowledge that it’s not the top brass but the workers who ultimately make a business a business

whether Elon (and his Stans, and all the various other temporarily embarrassed millionaires) realize that enough to actually admit it tho is prob a matter of opinion.

Either way, should prob take that much to the Conservatives Almost Getting It thread

Every business is different.

Trying to generalize and make far reaching statements makes many of your comments feel like they are coming from a 16 year old with no real world experience.

I understand your sentiment. But your application of it is deeply flawed, and bizarrely unrealistic.

[japhy]

We are currently in the process of selecting a new CEO. I met with the current CEO last week and we discussed the process. Of the 23 partner/shareholders in the firm, only one has voiced an interest.

Why? I hear it is a gravy train job.

First, most people rise to the top in large firms by being damn good at whatever it is the corporation does. They have a proven track record of generating revenue/profit or being innovative in their field. When you move to CEO, that shit is over. Your career in your field is over. It seems to the uninformed; like a coronation, the crowning achievement of a career, but it is the official end.

You now have the job of doing everything the rest of the managing/producing shareholders don’t want or like to do. And it is a cut in income. Most high level employees make the bulk of their money through performance pay. The CEO “performance” is tracking by the performance of everyone else. If everyone does well, the CEO gets some too. But the people who bring in the big bucks and really make the place run, get a much bigger chunk.

The typical CEO is on a 4-8 year glide path into retirement. Once you are CEO, you don’t go back into practice afterwards. Four years out of the “day to day” makes you a lousy candidate for running big projects or making money. A previous CEO to tried to return to practice and was told after a disasterous year that they would not be allowed to practice professionally within the firm any more. It was embarrassing and expensive to have them do work under our logo. Imagine being the founder of a firm and having the “kids” you made partners decades before telling you that. And knowing that it was truth.

Our current CEO will leave after having a good career as a producing partner but will be remembered as a middling CEO. The younger partners have no idea what the CEO did in the previous decade as an engineer and are wondering "what the hell they did all day" as CEO. The CEO did all of the shit the rest of us were too busy to do because it had to be done. The gross revenue will have doubled over the course of this CEO’s tenure, but it will be the practicing partners who will take credit for that. And while rightly so. But it wouldn’t have been possible not to implode under the stress of that growth if someone else wasn’t tending to the shitwork.

I am currently at the start of my 4 year glide path into retirement. I will not be pursuing the now open CEO position and there is no chance that anyone will ask me to consider it. I will finish up the last big glorious projects of my illustrious career and load the escape pod and point it towards the empire. And a year after I am gone the younger partners and employees will wonder out loud, “what the fuck did he really do around here? I know he took credit for all of those projects, but what did he really do?”. And rightly so.

[twocoach]

I'm tempted to say something like, no human being is worthless. But that might be controversial, especially in this thread.

I'm also temped to point out to twocoach that at least this time around, I didn't challenge anyone to answer any questions, I just posted a tweet from an evil rich CEO of multiple companies who just came out and admitted that often little is needed of him. But if even illy can just say it's all good, then I just wanna say it's all good too.

but yea, there are some worthless CEOs. Just like there are some worthless cops, fast food workers, landscapers, etc. but the difference is, those CEOs still make 300+ times the average income more than workers, even if they're worthless. Not to mention their golden parachute severance packages if and when their worthless asses get fired.

I also heard a take about identifying precisely why CEOs are worthless: so often they're basically little more than rubber stamps for the boreds of directors anyway. They're not trying to execute the best business decisions and strategies for the business they officiate.

They're appointed by a bored, report to the bored, and just sign off on the vision of the bored, even tho all the bored tends to care about is not some objective concern for what's best for the business or its stakeholders as a whole, but is simply concern for their own accumulation of wealth.

So this wasn't you?

"hey illy, is your post an actual response to my questions prompted by your post?

Or did you not bother to answer those questions in favor of just another petty putdown?"

It's especially amusing because he then followed it with an actual response only to receive a petty putdown. But I am sure you did it purposefully to prove a point or something...

The point of all of this conversation is that you seem to have a very narrow opinion of the role and like everything, it is much more nuanced that what you present. I'd guess that the number of CEOs that match the descriptions you have provided (golden parachutes, etc...) is a tiny fraction of the total number of CEOs in the country/world.

[jhawks99]

worthless people mostly just hangout on the interwebz all day and blubber their yap.

Said with no sense of irony at all.

[twocoach]

And for the record, the CEO or our organization is freaking brilliant and has revolutionized our company. We were in danger of falling behind our competitors because the previous CEO just wanted the bottom line to look nice (which he did by slashing expenses damn the consequences) and was not investing the needed funds in the infrastructure changes that need to happen to keep pace with the industry. The new CEO has allowed the investment of tens of millions of dollars in the IT changes required for us to stay relevant in the industry. He has also set the tone for the culture of the company and made it one of the most family friendly employers in the region and was at the forefront in investing in equipment to get all employees set up to work from home. I can't even imagine how much it cost to issue 5,000 laptops, 8,000+ monitors and the rest of the infrastructure needed so that we could all do our jobs during the pandemic. Whatever he gets paid, it's not enough.

[TDub]

impossible...no way he did all that from the tee box.......I have on good authority from our very own Che Guevara here that CEOs do nothing and are completely worthless.

[Deleted User 863]

Now that a reasonable person like japhy has shared Q will disappear from this thread for a few weeks until he sees a meme that's too good to pass up.

[ousdahl]

man, you guys and your boogeyman...when was the last time I shared a meme here, anyway?

but yea, Japhy's perspective is a good one.

and if you guys enjoy the anecdotes tho, allow me to share mine:

at my previous two employers, the resort ranch where I went fishing with Japhy announced one day, we got ourselves a CEO! He was the product of a nationwide recruiting effort, and the billionaire owner decided he was the best candidate for the role - based on his experience trimming the fat and expanding core competencies at tech companies, ownership thought he was just the guy to do the same for a, uh, guest resort.

One day, the guy actually physically appears. Nice guy! He comes in and says, "hey guys, since we have our own private stretch of river, why don't we start offering guided fishing trips, like many of the other resorts around here do?" To the CEO I reply, "great idea, let's do it!"...as I'm standing there with a couple of clients...in our waders and holding fishing rods...on the way out the door to the river...

The next joint was the early checkin circus yall were so fond of. The week before Christmas and New Years - thee busiest weeks of the year for early checkins in a mountain town - the owner/CEO calls a company wide meeting. "Now, I know we're extremely short staffed, and approaching the busiest time of year for us, so that's why I want to call for an all-hands-on-deck mentality for the next two weeks! I want everyone prepared to do everything! I even personally am planning to come in and help with housekeeping and maintenance stuff! So if even I have to be scrubbing toilets, I expect each of you to be prepared to as well!"

In that moment, and for perhaps the first and only time ever working for the guy, I respected him. All the rank and file had always been practicing an all-hands-on-deck mentality as just part of the gig, but to hear the owner and CEO doing the same, it seemed admirable, right?

So then the very next day, we're short staffed and over committed and otherwise scrambling. Another manager asks, "where's the owner and CEO? I thought he was gonna be around to help? I tried calling and emailing him this morning but haven't heard back."

That's when the "HR manager," (his wife), mentions, "oh didn't you hear? He left last night to spend the holiday at a private gated golf resort in Mexico. My flight leaves in the morning. You guys are running the show for the week."

But, alas, just more anecdotes.

so if I may, let me ask you guys a question. It's a two parter of sorts. Since you are all sooo enamored with CEOs, could you help me justify why the average CEO makes anywhere from 300 to, based on the time and the source, around 670 or more times as much as the average worker? Out of 300 top US companies, 49 of them had pay gap ratios above 1000:1.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ies-report

second part of that question: if one of those CEOs in question is worthless, does that mean they're 1000+ times as worthless as the average worker?

[twocoach]

man, you guys and your boogeyman...when was the last time I shared a meme here, anyway?

but yea, Japhy's perspective is a good one.

and if you guys enjoy the anecdotes tho, allow me to share mine:

at my previous two employers, the resort ranch where I went fishing with Japhy announced one day, we got ourselves a CEO! He was the product of a nationwide recruiting effort, and the billionaire owner decided he was the best candidate for the role - based on his experience trimming the fat and expanding core competencies at tech companies, ownership thought he was just the guy to do the same for a, uh, guest resort.

One day, the guy actually physically appears. Nice guy! He comes in and says, "hey guys, since we have our own private stretch of river, why don't we start offering guided fishing trips, like many of the other resorts around here do?" To the CEO I reply, "great idea, let's do it!"...as I'm standing there with a couple of clients...in our waders and holding fishing rods...on the way out the door to the river...

The next joint was the early checkin circus yall were so fond of. The week before Christmas and New Years - thee busiest weeks of the year for early checkins in a mountain town - the owner/CEO calls a company wide meeting. "Now, I know we're extremely short staffed, and approaching the busiest time of year for us, so that's why I want to call for an all-hands-on-deck mentality for the next two weeks! I want everyone prepared to do everything! I even personally am planning to come in and help with housekeeping and maintenance stuff! So if even I have to be scrubbing toilets, I expect each of you to be prepared to as well!"

In that moment, and for perhaps the first and only time ever working for the guy, I respected him. All the rank and file had always been practicing an all-hands-on-deck mentality as just part of the gig, but to hear the owner and CEO doing the same, it seemed admirable, right?

So then the very next day, we're short staffed and over committed and otherwise scrambling. Another manager asks, "where's the owner and CEO? I thought he was gonna be around to help? I tried calling and emailing him this morning but haven't heard back."

That's when the "HR manager," (his wife), mentions, "oh didn't you hear? He left last night to spend the holiday at a private gated golf resort in Mexico. My flight leaves in the morning. You guys are running the show for the week."

But, alas, just more anecdotes.

so if I may, let me ask you guys a question. It's a two parter of sorts. Since you are all sooo enamored with CEOs, could you help me justify why the average CEO makes anywhere from 300 to, based on the time and the source, around 670 or more times as much as the average worker? Out of 300 top US companies, 49 of them had pay gap ratios above 1000:1.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ies-report

second part of that question: if one of those CEOs in question is worthless, does that mean they're 1000+ times as worthless as the average worker?

"Report on 300 top US companies..."

As stated before, there are a lot of regular old companies and their CEOs out there that are not taken into account in either your random rants or that report. There's a few dozen CEOs out there who greatly throw off the "averages".

https://aflcio.org/paywatch/highest-paid-ceos

[ousdahl]

yea.

but, in the interest of this discussion, and of this entire thread, I don't think it does much for you CEO Stan guys's argument to point to the 1% types as some outlier.

Indeed, the 1% should be very much the focus.

cuz - spoiler alert! Like illy said, they're as prone to being as worthless as anyone.

but, unfortunately, if and when they are worthless, it's not like it only affects 1% of things.

[twocoach]

yea.

but, in the interest of this discussion, and of this entire thread, I don't think it does much for you CEO Stan guys's argument to point to the 1% types as some outlier.

Indeed, the 1% should be very much the focus.

cuz - spoiler alert! Like illy said, they're as prone to being as worthless as anyone.

but, unfortunately, if and when they are worthless, it's not like it only affects 1% of things.

Is it absurd to pay a CEO $100+ million? Yes, of course it is. I think we all agree to that. Do they provide anything close to that value to their employers? I have no idea.

[MICHHAWK]

at age 39, justin verlander signed a two deal worth 86 million. we get what we can get.

[ousdahl]

wait.

are we finally getting somewhere??????????????????????!?!?!?!?!?!

cuz yea, rather than give into our capitalist-dominated cultural knee-jerk temptation to go CEO apologist, those are the questions we should be asking.

[Overlander]

An effective CEO (or any other high level manager), shouldn’t HAVE to work their asses off