Kansas Crimson

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:28 am What diplomatic resolution did the US and NATO try to work for? Did they ease up on “lethal aid?”

I agree that none of what’s going on is justified. Could we clarify that though? Do you mean the Russian invasion? The whole US “lethal aid” to a corrupt country thing? What are we saying isn’t justified?

it doesn’t matter, because putin was having none of it so long as Ukraine would be allowed their own defense

of course the russian invasion isn’t justified. quit being dense

how many countries does the US sell arms to? do you know?

“lethal aid” nice narrative

flip the coin and those arms are procured in defense of freedom and sovereignty…and given who is on the other side of this conflict and their history, one narrative sure seems more fitting than the other

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:32 am

japhy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:20 am

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:14 am
He was also mentioned in the Pandora Papers, which identified more corrupt leaders in Ukraine than any other country.

make it make sense!

Tell me what is in the Pandora Papers about Zelensky?

https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-pa ... ner-circle

I don't want a link, I want you to tell me what it says about Zelensky in your own words. You are the one who keeps bringing it up. Tell me what Zelensky is implicated of in the documents? Do you know or are you just repeating innuendos?

japhy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:38 am

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:32 am

japhy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:20 am

Tell me what is in the Pandora Papers about Zelensky?

https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-pa ... ner-circle

I don't want a link, I want you to tell me what it says about Zelensky in your own words. You are the one who keeps bringing it up. Tell me what Zelensky is implicated of in the documents? Do you know or are you just repeating innuendos?

at least it’s a link

lobs woulda posted a 45min youtube vid

japhy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:38 am Do you know or are you just repeating innuendos?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... on/626966/

… Arsenyev put down his beer and said (in Russian, of course): “This man, Putin, will bring this country to hell. I know this for sure. It is the worst thing that could ever happen to us.”

“Why?” I asked.

“He is a Chekist,” he said, meaning an agent of the secret police. “Once a Chekist, always a Chekist. He is pure evil.”…

I’m at least glad you guys didn’t promptly dismiss that link too as just more Russian propaganda! Maybe we’re making progress. Fingers crossed.

Specifically, it accuses Zelensky of some crap about feathering his own nest. How exactly it applies to the Ukraine-Russia war, I don’t know in detail. In some general macro sense, is it far to see Ukraine’s President and leaders in the Pandora papers and conclude corruption in Ukraine is an issue?

Within that link, this is one of the curious parts:

Even as Zelensky pushes his anti-oligarch campaign, some continue to doubt his sincerity. Among them is Ruslan Ryaboshapka, who was picked by Zelensky as the country’s top prosecutor in 2019, but ousted from the role in early 2020. He told OCCRP he believes this was due to pressure from the oligarch Kolomoisky.

“A president shouldn’t own offshore companies. In general offshore companies are bad, whether they’re owned by a president or not,” Ryaboshapka said.

He called moving money offshore “an old tradition” in Ukraine, because the country was perceived as a dangerous place with “no rule of law.” But still, the use of such companies today raises red flags of “tax evasion or the legalization of dirty money,” he said.

We’re talking about a country whose own top prosecutor called a dangerous place with no rule of law.

So, if I may ask again, what good has come from billions in lethal aid to a dangerous country with no rule of law?

Do we know exactly who got those weapons and bombs and such? And exactly what they did with them?

For such a historically corrupt country, how much diligence did we do before and while we gave them the OK to dip their hands in our war chest?

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:58 am https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... on/626966/

… Arsenyev put down his beer and said (in Russian, of course): “This man, Putin, will bring this country to hell. I know this for sure. It is the worst thing that could ever happen to us.”

“Why?” I asked.

“He is a Chekist,” he said, meaning an agent of the secret police. “Once a Chekist, always a Chekist. He is pure evil.”…

Fuck Putin

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:06 pm
Specifically, it accuses Zelensky of some crap about feathering his own nest. How exactly it applies to the Ukraine-Russia war, I don’t know in detail. In some general macro sense, is it far to see Ukraine’s President and leaders in the Pandora papers and conclude corruption in Ukraine is an issue?

So as I understand things Zelensky is a somewhat wealthy guy, he was a TV star before he became president. He and some friends have money. They own somewhere around $8M in real estate in London. As part of that they formed an off shore company to shelter it. It is probably a good thing for both liability and tax reasons.

A number of the accounts found in the Pandora papers are said to be linked to money laundering and international criminal activity. To my knowledge no one has accused Zelensky's accounts of being involved in those activities.

For comparison purposes once again; much of my property is held in an LLC. It is for legal and tax purposes. Luckily the US is a stable safe location for that, so I don't "need" to put it in off shore accounts. But I could understand Ukrainians and Russians wanting to go the off shore route even if their business interests are legit/legal.

If you looked at most of the real estate in Saguache County CO, I suspect you would find the bulk of it was in LLCs and you can't tell who the owners are by the names. Mine is not in "Japhy LLC". Does this indicate the Saguache County is one of the most corrupt Counties in Colorado?

The raw data does not seem to be Russian disinformation. But there is a lot that can be cherry picked from legit information and fed to undiscerning swallowers, does that make sense?

That makes sense.

And LLCs don’t automatically mean corruption, no. (Isn’t LLCs tho part of the reason why no Merican politicians was named in the Pandora papers? But that’s a whole new tangent)

but then again, as far as I know, Saguache County’s DA never called the Empire a dangerous place with no rule of law, and no one in Saguache county asked for and received $2.5 billion (and counting) in bombs and such despite all that.

It seems much of the issue in this thread is still that one can’t question Merica’s own actions and intentions without being dismissed as Russian propaganda, ESPECIALLY when it looks like Merica might be a little complicit all along.

Plano and I can vouch there’s definitely rule of law in The Empire too. Believe me!

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:06 pm
So, if I may ask again, what good has come from billions in lethal aid to a dangerous country with no rule of law?

You do realize that much of the historical lack of rule of law and danger stem from their association with Russia right? You know, the brutal bad boyfriend that they are trying to get out of a relationship with. And the lethal aid is all that separates the average Ukrainian from being an indentured slave to putin (bad boyfriend).

And speaking of Russia....some folks in their military are asking now, why is their military in such disarray after billion$ of dollars were supposedly being spent on weaponry? Their army does not seem as well prepared for war as some oligarchs are for a weekend vacay on their yachts in Cyprus.

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:45 pm It seems much of the issue in this thread is still that one can’t question Merica’s own actions and intentions without being dismissed as Russian propaganda, ESPECIALLY when it looks like Merica might be a little complicit all along.

who here (other than mich) has painted the U S of A as all roses?

NOBODY

It seems much of the issue in this thread is still that one can’t question Merica’s own actions and intentions without being dismissed as Russian propaganda, ESPECIALLY when it looks like Merica might be a little complicit all along.

Nope, a lot of people on here have questioned Merica's motives for years. But we don't think Merica is complicit in the putin invasion of Ukraine.

I argued many times that Merica was complicit in the rise of Saddam Hussein and therefore should have have to pay the price for his removal when he became uncontrollable and a menace to world peace. Merica has lots of faults, but this war is not of our making.

The issue here is that you are parroting Russian propaganda almost to the letter. And some of us think it is important to point that out to you. We are bothered when a drinking/fishing buddy to turns into a mouthpiece for Russian bots. Call it an intervention.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Again, my sources are mostly a bunch of lefties on social media who have condemned the warmongers, all of em, cuz they’re the types who would rather give the world healthcare and education than anyone ever spend another penny on a bomb.

I’ve repeatedly condemned Russia. I’ve posted plenty of info from plenty of credible western media sources, like PBS and the New York Times and the NATO’s own website, and got accused of spreading Russian propaganda anyway.

But, I do appreciate that you guys keep me in check. That’s how we learn! I’ve grown more aware of anything that might be Russian propaganda. Again, my worldview is skepticism. And I realize more and more that this is a mess of a situation that fits into meme format even more poorly than the usual evil rich people lulz.

If I get to make the effort toward humility and understanding, I ask you all to do the same. I wish we could find the truth in the middle with Ukraine and Russia and US and all this.

Being so quick to dismiss me just cuz I’m trying for some angle that doesn’t fit so well with the mainstream war narrative doesn’t do much good either. Again, the truth is in the middle.

Also, man you guys missed quite the 85 joke teed up for you in the war crimes thread.

Have you guys heard of “tankies?”

Cuz there’s a handful of pseudo-lefties who think that’s some trendy term now

I’d like to distance myself from this idiots too.

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:19 pm
Being so quick to dismiss me just cuz I’m trying for some angle that doesn’t fit so well with the mainstream war narrative doesn’t do much good either.

I dismissed you because you posted that pussy assed version of a "Fear" song by "A Perfect Circle".

Keep that shit outta my sight!

Zelensky saying he's open to discussions regarding Donetsk and Luhansk and has cooled on talks about joining NATO saying NATO doesn't want confrontations and conflicts regarding Russia.

japhy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:25 pm

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:19 pm
Being so quick to dismiss me just cuz I’m trying for some angle that doesn’t fit so well with the mainstream war narrative doesn’t do much good either.

I dismissed you because you posted that pussy assed version of a "Fear" song by "A Perfect Circle".

Keep that shit outta my sight!

Jeebus.

It’s MY thread bro, and now you’re barging in and trying to tell me what to do in here?

Stop being such a Putin about it!

Qusdahl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:34 pm Jeebus.

It’s MY thread bro, and now you’re barging in and trying to tell me what to do in here?

Stop being such a Putin about it!

You do what you want. But you will be dismissed if you cross the line. You have been warned.

And no matter how many bands record the greatest rock and roll song of all time, "Search and Destroy", no one needs to hear any version except the original by The Stooges. Although the version my daughter did at the Jazz Haus a couple of months ago was pretty fuckin solid.