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Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:43 pm
by Deleted User 89
and i’ll say again...social contract, people
if you want to be a member of society, there are rules, some unspoken, which you are expected to abide by...personal freedoms be damned
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:45 pm
by Deleted User 89
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:29 pm
I will once again bring up there is some hypocrisy in being pro-choice and vaccine-mandate.
except for the whole infectious communicable disease thing
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:54 pm
by pdub
You could argue ( pretty legitimately ) you are ending a human life 100% - which is significantly a greater mortality rate than ~1%.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:55 pm
by pdub
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:43 pm
and i’ll say again...social contract, people
if you want to be a member of society, there are rules, some unspoken, which you are expected to abide by...personal freedoms be damned
And people disagree on these.
Hence the issue here.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:03 pm
by Deleted User 89
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:54 pm
You could argue ( pretty legitimately ) you are ending a human life 100% - which is significantly a greater mortality rate than ~1%.
but that’s a false equivalency, assuming you’re making the analogy of vaccines to abortion
the more apt comparison would be vaccines to birth control...both seeking to prevent, not treat
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:11 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:03 pm
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:54 pm
You could argue ( pretty legitimately ) you are ending a human life 100% - which is significantly a greater mortality rate than ~1%.
but that’s a false equivalency, assuming you’re making the analogy of vaccines to abortion
the more apt comparison would be vaccines to birth control...both seeking to prevent, not treat
There's no reason to find a comparison, they're always going to have logical fallacies. The US can mandate vaccines and it has for over a century.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:13 pm
by pdub
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:03 pm
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:54 pm
You could argue ( pretty legitimately ) you are ending a human life 100% - which is significantly a greater mortality rate than ~1%.
but that’s a false equivalency, assuming you’re making the analogy of vaccines to abortion
the more apt comparison would be vaccines to birth control...both seeking to prevent, not treat
The argument here at the central core is telling a human what to do with their body.
I am pro-choice. And when I think about it, because i'm pro-choice, I should also be anti-forced-vax, though I can still think it is entirely the correct thing to do for yourself and others.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:21 pm
by sdoyel
Just got an email from my son’s school and someone in his K class has Covid. Fun times.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:25 pm
by jfish26
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:08 pm
And its not an "anti vaxxer" issue. Its about freedom to make your own medical choices. Which is super fucked up that its controversial
Your entire line of reasoning on this subject is such horseshit.
An employer requiring vaccination (whether for employees, customers, whatever) is a
business decision. It is not in any way "making" anyone's medical choices for them.
It's ridiculous Q- or Q-adjacent nonsense to suggest/theorize/fearmonger otherwise.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:28 pm
by ousdahl
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:32 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:25 pm
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:08 pm
And its not an "anti vaxxer" issue. Its about freedom to make your own medical choices. Which is super fucked up that its controversial
Your entire line of reasoning on this subject is such horseshit.
An employer requiring vaccination (whether for employees, customers, whatever) is a
business decision. It is not in any way "making" anyone's medical choices for them.
It's ridiculous Q- or Q-adjacent nonsense to suggest/theorize/fearmonger otherwise.
The one legal hiccup might be that Qers are a protected class of the mentally ill.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:39 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
Delta Airlines testing out a vax passport-like app. Royal Caribbean requiring Florida port cruisers to be vaxed.
Ball is rolling. The more the businesses do this, the more popular vax passport will be.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:41 pm
by jfish26
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:39 pm
Delta Airlines testing out a vax passport-like app. Royal Caribbean requiring Florida port cruisers to be vaxed.
Ball is rolling. The more the businesses do this, the more popular vax passport will be.
The Florida passport ban
vis a vis cruises was always the silliest; any 1L can dispatch with than one by like October 3.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:43 pm
by sdoyel
Cant the federal govt overrule the airlines and require the vaccine?
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:48 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Cant the federal govt overrule the airlines and require the vaccine?
For passengers? There are several ways to achieve that, yes. Just a straight blanket on all flying and/or the destinations requiring it for entry.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:54 pm
by Deleted User 863
Are mandated flu vaccines next?
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:56 pm
by randylahey
NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:41 pm
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:25 pm
sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:14 pm
Why do you not care about people, in general?
Thats a terribly dumb comment. First of all I chose to get vaccinated months ago. Someones vaccination status is not a reflection of them as a person tho. And I do care about people, which is why I think we should always have the right to make our own health decisions without facing consequences or backlash
Speaking of terribly dumb comments (and ignorance) - You said, "Forcing 100 percent of people to get a treatment for a virus that doesn't or barely affects 90+ percent is ignorant".
1) When we had "shutdowns"/"lockdowns" and even "mandates" it affected a hell of a lot more than 10% of the US population. It's still affecting more than 10% of the US population in many ways.
2) Have you ever had a loved one hospitalized for something major?
I assure you if you care about them - it affects you (and others who care about the loved one) too.
So please let's not pretend the only people who are "affected" by the virus are those who become severely sick from the virus.
Those lockdowns were ineffective and not backed by science. And are a separate issue. It was governments around the world panicking at the threat of the unknown. And for some reason copying china's response. Lockdowns were another another mistake by the government. We are still feeling the effects of it.
I think you accidentally supported my point tho. Lockdowns and vaccine mandates affect 100 percent of us. The virus affects maybe 5 percent. It makes no sense to enforce something on 100 percent of a population in regards to something that affects such a small percentage. Regardless of the situation
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:57 pm
by jfish26
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:56 pm
NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:41 pm
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:25 pm
Thats a terribly dumb comment. First of all I chose to get vaccinated months ago. Someones vaccination status is not a reflection of them as a person tho. And I do care about people, which is why I think we should always have the right to make our own health decisions without facing consequences or backlash
Speaking of terribly dumb comments (and ignorance) - You said, "Forcing 100 percent of people to get a treatment for a virus that doesn't or barely affects 90+ percent is ignorant".
1) When we had "shutdowns"/"lockdowns" and even "mandates" it affected a hell of a lot more than 10% of the US population. It's still affecting more than 10% of the US population in many ways.
2) Have you ever had a loved one hospitalized for something major?
I assure you if you care about them - it affects you (and others who care about the loved one) too.
So please let's not pretend the only people who are "affected" by the virus are those who become severely sick from the virus.
Those lockdowns were ineffective and not backed by science. And are a separate issue. It was governments around the world panicking at the threat of the unknown. And for some reason copying china's response. Lockdowns were another another mistake by the government. We are still feeling the effects of it.
I think you accidentally supported my point tho. Lockdowns and
vaccine mandates affect 100 percent of us. The virus affects maybe 5 percent. It makes no sense to enforce something on 100 percent of a population in regards to something that affects such a small percentage. Regardless of the situation
The only "vaccine mandates" that "affect 100 percent of us" are the made up, straw man mandates you are using to stir shit. They don't exist, and won't exist.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:57 pm
by jhawks99
They are where my wife works. Have been for years.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:06 pm
by randylahey
Regardless of what happens there is going to be a big chunk of society unhappy with it. Thats pretty good evidence there is no perfect method. Too many variables. That is why I'm anti mandating anything. Personal choice and personal freedom must persevere