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Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:09 pm
by randylahey
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:43 pm
and i’ll say again...social contract, people
if you want to be a member of society, there are rules, some unspoken, which you are expected to abide by...personal freedoms be damned
Perceived rules and laws are always in constant motion tho. There is no reason to support ones you don't agree with
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:10 pm
by jfish26
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:06 pm
Regardless of what happens there is going to be a big chunk of society unhappy with it. Thats pretty good evidence there is no perfect method. Too many variables. That is why I'm anti mandating anything.
Personal choice and personal freedom must persevere
And why are you so against private enterprise choosing?
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:13 pm
by TDub
zsn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:28 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:30 pm
zsn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:22 pm
Unless they have a damned good medical reason I don’t want an unvaccinated medical professional administering treatment to me. I would consider a nurse or doctor refusing vaccination to be inadequately trained. I would have no confidence in the medical care they are about to provide me. It’s not unlike having a policeman who didn’t believe in STOP signs or speed limits.
Lol. Ok. I dont stand on as high of a moral high ground when I'm bleeding out my ears or having crippling chest pains. But more power to ya for sticking to your guns
I suppose then you’re going to let a landscaper do bypass surgery on you because it’s all about patching hoses and tubes. Why stand on the formality of elitist medical training!
Not at all what I said.
If i wouldve entrusted them with my medical care prior to 2019 then i would continue to do so....they didnt forget their schooling because of a difference in personal beliefs.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:14 pm
by jfish26
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:13 pm
zsn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:28 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:30 pm
Lol. Ok. I dont stand on as high of a moral high ground when I'm bleeding out my ears or having crippling chest pains. But more power to ya for sticking to your guns
I suppose then you’re going to let a landscaper do bypass surgery on you because it’s all about patching hoses and tubes. Why stand on the formality of elitist medical training!
Not at all what I said.
If i wouldve entrusted them with my medical care prior to 2019 then i would continue to do so....they didnt forget their schooling because of a difference in personal beliefs.
"Personal beliefs," what garbage.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:21 pm
by japhy
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:30 pm
by sdoyel
Covid is changing my profession in profound ways (architecture).
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:31 pm
by TDub
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:14 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:13 pm
zsn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:28 pm
I suppose then you’re going to let a landscaper do bypass surgery on you because it’s all about patching hoses and tubes. Why stand on the formality of elitist medical training!
Not at all what I said.
If i wouldve entrusted them with my medical care prior to 2019 then i would continue to do so....they didnt forget their schooling because of a difference in personal beliefs.
"Personal beliefs," what garbage.
*Giggle*.
Am I doing it right?
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:33 pm
by TDub
sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:30 pm
Covid is changing my profession in profound ways (architecture).
I bet it changes the standards for HVAC systems in public spaces drastically. Down draft ventilation, less recycled air, upgraded filters etc
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:35 pm
by zsn
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:13 pm
Not at all what I said.
If i wouldve entrusted them with my medical care prior to 2019 then i would continue to do so....they didnt forget their schooling because of a difference in personal beliefs.
If I had entrusted them before 2020 it was because I didn’t know any better. Once I know I cannot go there in good conscience. I think that’s the way it works in most of our lives. It’s not that they didn’t forget what they learned. It’s that either what they learned was inadequate or they allow their personal beliefs to interfere with accepted medical norms. What else are they going to withhold due to their beliefs? A dealbreaker for me, in any case.
In fact it’s on their employer as well. You would expect the hospital or medical practice to determine the competency of their employees. And that’s what we, as patients rely on. Once they know about the antivax “beliefs” they are obligated to act accordingly to preserve patients’ safety, or lose my trust in them. Good on you Houston Methodist for firing 150+ employees.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:36 pm
by jfish26
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:31 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:14 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:13 pm
Not at all what I said.
If i wouldve entrusted them with my medical care prior to 2019 then i would continue to do so....they didnt forget their schooling because of a difference in personal beliefs.
"Personal beliefs," what garbage.
*Giggle*.
Am I doing it right?
What you're doing very right, is in two words expressing the sort of entitled self-absorption that reinforces the worst stereotypes of Americans and America.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:41 pm
by TDub
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:36 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:31 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:14 pm
"Personal beliefs," what garbage.
*Giggle*.
Am I doing it right?
What you're doing very right, is in two words expressing the sort of entitled self-absorption that reinforces the worst stereotypes of Americans and America.
Lol. Ok. Because I believe the vaccine should be a choice. Because i believe we are going to create an artificial shortage in industries that sre critical to our country. Because more people are going to die because of it (thats what you want vaccines mandates to avoid right?). I am self absorped and entitled? Even though I am vaccinated? Because i believe in choice without the government mandating what I can and cannot do with my body and can coerce people into decisions by threatening employment. Because i believe that sets a dangerous precedent for other things regarding choice and employment.....that makes me the asshole? Fuck off with that.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:44 pm
by zsn
TDub- do you consider medical licensing a form of government mandate, preventing people from seeking a seemingly lucrative livelihood? “Choice and employment”
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:45 pm
by Deleted User 887
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:56 pm
NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:41 pm
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:25 pm
Thats a terribly dumb comment. First of all I chose to get vaccinated months ago. Someones vaccination status is not a reflection of them as a person tho. And I do care about people, which is why I think we should always have the right to make our own health decisions without facing consequences or backlash
Speaking of terribly dumb comments (and ignorance) - You said, "Forcing 100 percent of people to get a treatment for a virus that doesn't or barely affects 90+ percent is ignorant".
1) When we had "shutdowns"/"lockdowns" and even "mandates" it affected a hell of a lot more than 10% of the US population. It's still affecting more than 10% of the US population in many ways.
2) Have you ever had a loved one hospitalized for something major?
I assure you if you care about them - it affects you (and others who care about the loved one) too.
So please let's not pretend the only people who are "affected" by the virus are those who become severely sick from the virus.
Those lockdowns were ineffective and not backed by science. And are a separate issue. It was governments around the world panicking at the threat of the unknown. And for some reason copying china's response. Lockdowns were another another mistake by the government. We are still feeling the effects of it.
I think you accidentally supported my point tho. Lockdowns and vaccine mandates affect 100 percent of us. The virus affects maybe 5 percent. It makes no sense to enforce something on 100 percent of a population in regards to something that affects such a small percentage. Regardless of the situation
"The lockdowns were ineffective" because...... You said so? Please define "ineffective".
I say if a lockdown prevented just one person from contracting/spreading the virus, then it was effective. At least it was for that person. Which could have been you and/or someone you care about.
"and not backed by science"?...... I don't need science to tell me that if someone is sick and they stay at home and/or they are not near me - they are not going to get me sick.
Governments around the world may have been panicking at "the threat of the unknown" but the threat of the known was that people around the world were contracting a deadly virus that was fucking a lot of people up - in more ways than just being hospitalized and/or dying.
I am not educated enough on the subject to know everyone (individuals and countries as a whole) who was/were "copying China's response. No doubt mistakes were made. No doubt some good/beneficial decisions were made too.
Mistake or not, lockdowns were what was determined to be a good (if not best) way to stop the spread.
When shit was grim, as much as I detested the lockdown/s, right or wrong, I did and respected what I was told to do and what was deemed to be best for EVERYONE. Even if I disagreed.
Seems you and I can argue/debate semantics but I refuse to believe that the virus has affected less than 10% of the US population.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:50 pm
by TDub
zsn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:44 pm
TDub- do you consider medical licensing a form of government mandate, preventing people from seeking a seemingly lucrative livelihood? “Choice and employment”
Not at all the same thing and you know it.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:51 pm
by Deleted User 863
Can you imagine if Trump was still the President? ...it might be all the republicans getting vaccinated and all the dems being super skeptical.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:57 pm
by jfish26
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:41 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:36 pm
TDub wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:31 pm
*Giggle*.
Am I doing it right?
What you're doing very right, is in two words expressing the sort of entitled self-absorption that reinforces the worst stereotypes of Americans and America.
Lol. Ok. Because I believe the vaccine should be a choice. Because i believe we are going to create an artificial shortage in industries that sre critical to our country. Because more people are going to die because of it (thats what you want vaccines mandates to avoid right?). I am self absorped and entitled? Even though I am vaccinated? Because i believe in choice without the government mandating what I can and cannot do with my body and can coerce people into decisions by threatening employment. Because i believe that sets a dangerous precedent for other things regarding choice and employment.....that makes me the asshole? Fuck off with that.
I have not ever supported mandatory Covid vaccinations (although I'll note, as has been mentioned many many times, that we seem to be
fine with mandatory vaccines as the price of admission to public life, such as schooling).
But, to defend the choice to not get vaccinated as a matter of subjective "personal belief," as opposed to denial of objective reality, is to kind of take a dump on people who in fact have been discriminated against because of differences in
actual "personal beliefs". Not "personal political/social preferences" dressed up as something sacrosanct and worthy of defense.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:11 pm
by Deleted User 887
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:51 pm
Can you imagine if Trump was still the President? ...it might be all the republicans getting vaccinated and all the dems being super skeptical.
Could you imagine if God didn't create Adam and Eve then you and I wouldn't be cousins?
Being serious, I am sure if Trump was still President it wouldn't be "all" the Republicans getting vaccinated nor would it be "all" the Dems being super skeptical.
Regardless of what people would and wouldn't do if Trump was still President, if he didn't prove to people that he was a fucking clown while serving as President then....... Ah fuck it.
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:05 pm
by randylahey
NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:45 pm
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:56 pm
NotGutterGutter wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:41 pm
Speaking of terribly dumb comments (and ignorance) - You said, "Forcing 100 percent of people to get a treatment for a virus that doesn't or barely affects 90+ percent is ignorant".
1) When we had "shutdowns"/"lockdowns" and even "mandates" it affected a hell of a lot more than 10% of the US population. It's still affecting more than 10% of the US population in many ways.
2) Have you ever had a loved one hospitalized for something major?
I assure you if you care about them - it affects you (and others who care about the loved one) too.
So please let's not pretend the only people who are "affected" by the virus are those who become severely sick from the virus.
Those lockdowns were ineffective and not backed by science. And are a separate issue. It was governments around the world panicking at the threat of the unknown. And for some reason copying china's response. Lockdowns were another another mistake by the government. We are still feeling the effects of it.
I think you accidentally supported my point tho. Lockdowns and vaccine mandates affect 100 percent of us. The virus affects maybe 5 percent. It makes no sense to enforce something on 100 percent of a population in regards to something that affects such a small percentage. Regardless of the situation
"The lockdowns were ineffective" because...... You said so? Please define "ineffective".
I say if a lockdown prevented just one person from contracting/spreading the virus, then it was effective. At least it was for that person. Which could have been you and/or someone you care about.
"and not backed by science"?...... I don't need science to tell me that if someone is sick and they stay at home and/or they are not near me - they are not going to get me sick.
Governments around the world may have been panicking at "the threat of the unknown" but the threat of the known was that people around the world were contracting a deadly virus that was fucking a lot of people up - in more ways than just being hospitalized and/or dying.
I am not educated enough on the subject to know everyone (individuals and countries as a whole) who was/were "copying China's response. No doubt mistakes were made. No doubt some good/beneficial decisions were made too.
Mistake or not, lockdowns were what was determined to be a good (if not best) way to stop the spread.
When shit was grim, as much as I detested the lockdown/s, right or wrong, I did and respected what I was told to do and what was deemed to be best for EVERYONE. Even if I disagreed.
Seems you and I can argue/debate semantics but I refuse to believe that the virus has affected less than 10% of the US population.
Dude the virus itself doesn't affect that high of a percentage of people. We have statistical data on that. The amount of people hospitalized from covid is really low percentage wise. Always has been. You keep bringing up lockdowns mandates and stuff. Humans chose to do those. We didn't have to. They didn't stop covid. Minimally effective at best. If your argument is that the lockdowns and mandates are what is affecting everyone then you are accidentally admitting we shouldn't be having mandates
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:07 pm
by randylahey
I'm curious how people reading all these dire articles on covid actually relate to the real world. If you get out and about you realize most people are living a normal life and don't really give a shit about covid
Re: COVID-19 - On the Ground
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:13 pm
by Deleted User 863
randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:07 pm
I'm curious how people reading all these dire articles on covid actually relate to the real world. If you get out and about you realize most people are living a normal life and don't really give a shit about covid
I do laugh a bit to myself when i see people who are super critical of places like Florida go on vacation there with their kids and do normal shit like it's nothing.
