Kansas Crimson

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:57 pm All I said was he's helped us more than he's hurt us for 3.75 years.

Most KU players don't hurt the team at all. Vick's attitude hurt the team last year. The fact that you keep using "3.75" should be explanation enough, but if you want me to spell it out, Vick's senior year has been the equivalent of the Titanic's maiden voyage. Does anyone want to pat the engineer on the back for keeping the ship on top of the water for 4 days?

He's also on numerous occasions brought negative press to the program. For instance, when the University concluded that he kicked a girl in the face and, presumably, Bill Self suspended him for 3 days because of it.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:35 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:21 pm

cjbooth38 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:50 pm

Garrett or KJ should replace Grimes in the starting lineup but they probably won't. Grimes has been horrible all year and he's actually getting worse as the year goes on. His FG % over the last 8 games is 29%. He's not very good at anything else - driving, rebounding, defense, etc. so if he's not scoring, he really doesn't have much value. I know he needs to continue getting minutes so he can get better but once Garrett returns, it should no longer be in the 30's. If it were up to me, he would get about 15 to 20 minutes per game until he starts to show some improvement.

I’m as frustrated as anyone with how things have gone with Grimes, but I think you have to stay with him at this point. It’s in there...somewhere.

He doesn't look just completely lost out there anymore, which I guess is something.

Still not hitting shots, but he's finally taking the right shots. Baby steps, I guess, but I'm still hopeful for it click all of the sudden. Quite simply, it looks like he needs another year.

100% agree with both of you. My only problem is that Garrett and KJ appear to be playing a lot better overall RIGHT NOW. If we had no hope in winning the big 12 and making a run in the tourney then I would be completely on board with giving Grimes as many minutes as possible. However, considering that isn't the case, I would give Grimes just enough minutes to continue to develop and make sure the other players who are ready now like KJ and Garrett are not losing too many minutes to him. It's a fact that we are better with KJ and/or Garrett on the court right now. I would love to see what this starting lineup would look like with KJ in there. I think it's something Self needs to look at before he commits to a starting 5 because it's getting late into the season.

I wonder if Bill Self knows as much about basketball than we do.

Michael Lee, Alex Galindo, CJ Giles, Omar Wilkes, JR Giddens, Jeff Hawkins, Micah Downs, Jeremy Case, Rodrick Stewart, Brady Morningstar, Mario Little, Quintrell Thomas, Conner Teahan, Tyrel Reed, Elijah Johnson, CJ Henry, Josh Selby, Royce Woolridge, Kevin Young, Merv Linsday, Justin Wesley, Naadir Tharpe, Andrew White, Jamari Traylor, Rio Adams, Tarik Black, Brannen Green, Landen Lucas, Conner Frankamp, Hunter Mickelson, Kelly Oubre, Cliff Alexander, Carlton Bragg, Cheick Diallo, Dwight Coleby, Mitch Lightfoot, Silvio De Sousa, Sam Cunliffe, Marcus Garrett, KJ Lawson, Charlie Moore, Quentin Grimes, David McCormack.

And there were are a number of other 'shittier' scholly players not mentioned there under Self.
And then you can start to argue with everyone's heroes like DJax, Sasha Kaun which will of course cause hissy fits. But it's a reasonable argument.

And then you debate Xavier Henry or Ben McLemore or Joel Embiid who helped us for one year and Vick 3.75.

13 1,000 point scorers.
So fucking stupid.

I didn't go thru the entire list but I'd put Tyrel Reed, Brady Morningstar, and many others from that list ahead of Lagerald Vick.

I wouldnt.
And youd be biased to do so.
But thats kinda the theme.

I wouldn't be biased. His off court and locker room issues are relevant.

Again, there's more to it than pts in a box score.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:47 pm Bill Self has had 13 scollies give or take every year for 15 years.
He's had 13 players score 1,000 points.
So fucking stupid.

"Relative to your average Bill Self scholarship player, that's not correct."
Just so stupid.

Of those players, how many were rotation players who received at least 24+ mpg for 3 or more seasons (as Vick has) and of those, how many scored at least 1,000+?

18: Graham and Svi - both scored 1,000+
17: Mason- scored 1,000+
16: Ellis - scored 1,000+
14: Black - scored 1,000+ between Memphis and Kansas and his mpg were only 13, 21, 22 and 25.
13: Young, Withey, Releford, Elijah: Oddly, Young was the only one of the 4 to score 1,000+ in his college career. The other three all ended with 900+ despite only playing 24+ minutes in only 2 seasons
12: Taylor - scored 1,000+
11: Morningstar, Reed - neither played 3+ seasons with 24+ mpg so neither made 1,000+

Vick did what every single guy who play for 24+ minutes for 3+ seasons does at Kansas.

He's not a top 30 player of the Self era. Not even debatable. Don't care about his point totals.

Leawood wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:11 pm I wonder if Bill Self knows as much about basketball than we do.

Lol ok? Thanks for that genius input. The point of this website is to discuss our thoughts. Not everyone is going to agree with every decision Self makes. Believe it or not, Self is not even close to perfect. He has made mistakes just like every coach and will continue to do so. That said, there is no one else I would rather coaching this team.

So hes getting those minutes just out of the kindness of Bills heart.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:36 pm So hes getting those minutes just out of the kindness of Bills heart.

During the last 2 years I'd say he got them because we didn't have other comparable choices.

And you couldn't say that for guys like Morningstar, Reed and Elijah Johnson?
We were a final four team and an e8 team during the last 2 years.
We had no comparable choices because Vick was an above average player.

Also, Tyrel Reed?
His senior year was worse than Vick's junior.
GTFO.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:37 pmDuring the last 2 years I'd say he got them because we didn't have other comparable choices.

Although, Bill has picked Grimes, Garrett and Ochai over Vick twice now.

PDub needs a Vick Meter!

Tyrel Reed.
Jesus.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:36 pm So hes getting those minutes just out of the kindness of Bills heart.

Talent, potential and lack of better options.

Which is kinda the point.
Or more like most of the point.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:48 pm Tyrel Reed.
Jesus.

Yes. I'd take tyrel over Vick everyday of the week. So would Self.