Kansas Crimson

ngo’s that have been reporting agree with you

bUT tHE waSHinGTon tiMEs!

Jesus christ theres a lot of people in China. Blows my mind everyrime i see it visualized.

5 US cases now, 2 in so. cal. and another in arizona

nearly 2,000 “reported” in china

If it is contagious before it is symptomatic that is going to make things difficult as far as containment ia concerned.

It has been awhile since I’ve played the game PLAGUE INC, but our actual headlines read just like the headlines in the game.
I did my grocery shopping at midnight, last evening. It was a convenient time for me, but in the back of my head I was also motivated to avoid the crowds.

If you're concerned about this coronavirus outbreak, as you should be, but you don't bother to get a flu shot every year, maybe you should think again?

So far this 2019-20 flu season, influenza has killed 8,200 Americans and hospitalized 140,000.

An estimated 80,000 Americans died of flu and its complications last winter — the disease's highest death toll in at least four decades.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... break.html

Well...no shit. They been lyin'? Whodda guessed?

5,000,000 people left Wuhan before travel restrictions.

Don't go to Thailand.

TDub wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:45 am Except the market that is currently considered as ground zero has already been closed down, wiped clean and bleached off the face of the earth prior to any sampling being done. Or so i read. I'll try to find that link again

Fallout from humans' desire to house, kill and eat animals. As a species we should rethink whether and how to do better. Many of the last few pandemics have their zoonotic (i.e. transmission from animals to humans) origins connected to birds/animals raised or processed for food. In most of the world it's just a group of people slaughtering animals that day or even there - there is no disinfection/refrigeration. Lots of animals in close contact with each other, and humans. Just cleaning markets is a weak last step.

Lets not turn this into an argument about vegetarianism.

I do agree there are proper protocol for meat handling and storage which shoild be adhered to more strictly than they are in many of these types of markets.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 pm Lets not turn this into an argument about vegetarianism.

^^^

If God didn't want us to make use of the fauna around us, why did he put cow's milk in a convenient assortment of paperboard and plastic containers?

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 pm Lets not turn this into an argument about vegetarianism.

Let's not; but willfully ignoring the underlying cause (keeping large numbers of food-animals in close quarters) because we are uncomfortable of where it may lead does major disservice to public health. The fact that the zoonosis of swine flu, bird flu, SARS and now this are all from food-animals is undeniable.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:05 pm I do agree there are proper protocol for meat handling and storage which shoild be adhered to more strictly than they are in many of these types of markets.

This is where trying to impart (note that I intentionally avoided "impose") Western sensibilities on local realities fall apart. If you have seen markets in Asia and Latin America (only places that I have first-hand knowledge) you'll know that there is literally no way you're going to get the poor farmers/vendors to adopt anything but what they believe are "current good practice". They don't see the connection (because if they did the last swine flu or bird flu epidemic would have been the last) and so the only way is to diminish the sheer numbers of these animals.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 pm Lets not turn this into an argument about vegetarianism.

Seems odd to not allow it to be part of the conversation.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:16 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 pm Lets not turn this into an argument about vegetarianism.

Seems odd to not allow it to be part of the conversation.

Well, that argument will take over the thread and will move away from the main issue which is the virus, the containment of the virus etc. Plus, i dont think its an argument that can be won by either side.

But, in the name of some fun regarding the topic....i present Baxter Black.

I would also add that i believe there is quite a bit of value in knowing where your food comes from, and by being involved in the process of development and procurement of the food.

So, the reason that the swine flu (H1N1) and the spanish flu were so virulent, was through a process called antigenic shift. Basically, a human flu (influenza A) recombines with a virus from a different animal (avian flu) in a third animal species (pig). Human flu produces proteins called antigens that our bodies can make antibodies against as a defense. We still get very sick, but our immune system ultimately protects us. When antigenic shift happens, most of the genes that make it virulent in humans remain, but some of the genes that encode antigens are replaced by similar genes from the other virus (avian influenza, for example) that are different enough that our body is less able to recognize, and therefore less able to produce antibodies against, making the virus more virulent.

So, since this virus has sequence homology to SARS (79.5%) as well as bat coronavirus (96%), and it was transmitted through a third animal at a live food market. It seems reasonable to assume that this is another example of antigenic shift. Which obviously could happen naturally, but could also be easily engineered. I haven't seen this mentioned in the media, though, this is not the priority most people care about right now.

If someone wanted a quick and dirty way to make a more virulent virus against humans, you could start mixing different bat coronaviruses with SARS, in different animals and then screen them for virulence. It'd be pretty easy if you had the viruses.

Obviously there are more sophisticated ways to engineer a more virulent virus, but this would be an easy brute force method to do it. But, it also obviously is a mechanism that has operated in nature too.

I’m all for plant-based foods, food security, etc.
However, not all pandemics are viruses and we don’t assume they all come from food animals. IMO, over population of humans is equally to blame.

Good point.

The Chinese should slaughter a whole generation of babies -- girls especially -- in order to rectify the overcrowding issue and obviously not create a ton of new issues in the process.



Oh wait...