Kansas Crimson

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:19 pm This may sound a bit strange, but Self's offense for a guard is somewhat simple. It's the big guys who have to be in the right spots at the right time. Lots of times, as a guard in his offense, you wait for the ball to come to you in a certain spot and you go. Maybe 7 seconds of work on a 30 second clock while the big works and moves all 30 seconds.

If guards are standing around waiting for a ball then they aren't doing it right and the play is doomed.

I think that the timing of when to do things and the angles at which you have to pass in Self's offense are all very precise and very complicated. Last year's team sucked at passing into the post because they were too impatient to wait for screens to develop and because they were too imprecise about their passing angles, resulting in turnovers or balls caught in a position where it was very hard for the post player to do something quickly.

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:12 pm

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:19 pm This may sound a bit strange, but Self's offense for a guard is somewhat simple. It's the big guys who have to be in the right spots at the right time. Lots of times, as a guard in his offense, you wait for the ball to come to you in a certain spot and you go. Maybe 7 seconds of work on a 30 second clock while the big works and moves all 30 seconds.

If guards are standing around waiting for a ball then they aren't doing it right and the play is doomed.

I think that the timing of when to do things and the angles at which you have to pass in Self's offense are all very precise and very complicated. Last year's team sucked at passing into the post because they were too impatient to wait for screens to develop and because they were too imprecise about their passing angles, resulting in turnovers or balls caught in a position where it was very hard for the post player to do something quickly.

Big Daves' success in the post is VERY dependent on getting a pass in a scoring position. Also, he needs to dunk more.

Overlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:53 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:12 pm

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:19 pm This may sound a bit strange, but Self's offense for a guard is somewhat simple. It's the big guys who have to be in the right spots at the right time. Lots of times, as a guard in his offense, you wait for the ball to come to you in a certain spot and you go. Maybe 7 seconds of work on a 30 second clock while the big works and moves all 30 seconds.

If guards are standing around waiting for a ball then they aren't doing it right and the play is doomed.

I think that the timing of when to do things and the angles at which you have to pass in Self's offense are all very precise and very complicated. Last year's team sucked at passing into the post because they were too impatient to wait for screens to develop and because they were too imprecise about their passing angles, resulting in turnovers or balls caught in a position where it was very hard for the post player to do something quickly.

Big Daves' success in the post is VERY dependent on getting a pass in a scoring position. Also, he needs to dunk more.

What was his dunk make percentage? Seems like he made 12 footer turnaround jumpers at the same clip me made his dunks.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:00 pm

Overlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:53 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:12 pm
If guards are standing around waiting for a ball then they aren't doing it right and the play is doomed.

I think that the timing of when to do things and the angles at which you have to pass in Self's offense are all very precise and very complicated. Last year's team sucked at passing into the post because they were too impatient to wait for screens to develop and because they were too imprecise about their passing angles, resulting in turnovers or balls caught in a position where it was very hard for the post player to do something quickly.

Big Daves' success in the post is VERY dependent on getting a pass in a scoring position. Also, he needs to dunk more.

What was his dunk make percentage? Seems like he made 12 footer turnaround jumpers at the same clip me made his dunks.

He seemed to avoid dunking. Like Scott Padgett-level avoidance.

How often was he really in scoring position, though?

In terms of having his guy pinned and being ready to score before he even got the ball, not often.

Mitch Ballock signing with agent and is gone.

All 5 Creighton starters have slammed the door shut on a return. Have to wonder if they can keep McDermott.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:17 pm Mitch Ballock signing with agent and is gone.

All 5 Creighton starters have slammed the door shut on a return. Have to wonder if they can keep McDermott.

Donors will be too busy drinking beer in the concourses to notice if they drop off next year.

Overlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:53 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:12 pm

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:19 pm This may sound a bit strange, but Self's offense for a guard is somewhat simple. It's the big guys who have to be in the right spots at the right time. Lots of times, as a guard in his offense, you wait for the ball to come to you in a certain spot and you go. Maybe 7 seconds of work on a 30 second clock while the big works and moves all 30 seconds.

If guards are standing around waiting for a ball then they aren't doing it right and the play is doomed.

I think that the timing of when to do things and the angles at which you have to pass in Self's offense are all very precise and very complicated. Last year's team sucked at passing into the post because they were too impatient to wait for screens to develop and because they were too imprecise about their passing angles, resulting in turnovers or balls caught in a position where it was very hard for the post player to do something quickly.

Big Daves' success in the post is VERY dependent on getting a pass in a scoring position. Also, he needs to dunk more.

Gotta get the ball in a position to dunk, first. Davedoesnt do as well at sealing off defenders higher up the lane and giving room for the guards to lead him to a dunking position so he is partially to blame. But there were a lot of butt ugly passes into the post that had zero chance of completing last year.

Hopefully Dave will get better position cuz he won’t be so frequently double teamed cuz we’ll have guards who aren’t afraid to score that opponents can’t sag off of so much.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:10 am Hopefully Dave will get better position cuz he won’t be so frequently double teamed cuz we’ll have guards who aren’t afraid to score that opponents can’t sag off of so much.

Agreed. Situations where we had Harris, Garrett and even Braun on the floor absolutely led to times where the post was plugged with multiple defenders due to the defense not viewing those three as threats to take and hit an open three. I really hope this new squad of players has at least one or two dudes who will absolutely stick a three if left open. We desperately need that again.

Self may need to consider offense over defense. Garrett was a great defender, but cost us points on the other end.

Sparko wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:59 am Self may need to consider offense over defense. Garrett was a great defender, but cost us points on the other end.

Didn't someone quote self recently saying, something like, you can teach a scorer to defend, you can't always teach a defender to score.

He needs to remember that.

Recruit scorers, play the ones who defend.

And how the hell do we get guys who can't shoot? Every kid I know just shoots 3's all day.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:10 am Hopefully Dave will get better position cuz he won’t be so frequently double teamed cuz we’ll have guards who aren’t afraid to score that opponents can’t sag off of so much.

Obviously good post play helps good perimeter play and vice versa. But, this doesn't make a ton of sense.

The players that were being sagged off of were Garrett, Harris, and Thompson, and it started in conference play.

That certainly affects ability to get past the primary defender and passing angles, but does not excuse Dave at all for being subpar in pre-catch positioning, and being way too far off the block. That goes to Dave's struggles with the mental aspect of the game.

Double teams also don't come until after the catch, and while we certainly didn't knock down enough shots off the double team, the doubles were primarily done to take away Dave's lone scoring strength.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:02 am

Sparko wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:59 am Self may need to consider offense over defense. Garrett was a great defender, but cost us points on the other end.

Didn't someone quote self recently saying, something like, you can teach a scorer to defend, you can't always teach a defender to score.

He needs to remember that.

Recruit scorers, play the ones who defend.

And how the hell do we get guys who can't shoot? Every kid I know just shoots 3's all day.

I wonder if the game changing to more perimeter oriented is also hurting Self on the recruiting trail/roster construction. We knew early on with him that we were going to get really great big guys, and we have. It's always been a struggle to get the kind of guards that Kentucky and Duke were getting. When you aren't thought of as the type of coach that wants to score through the guards, you're going to get negatively recruited on them.

not enough hype for BIFM

Whether its true or not, whether its fair or not Self gets a knock for not 'using' five star guards well. Has great success with those that stick around but the one and done guys that come here I know for a fact other coaches use that against KU because they haven't fared as well as expected.

Long gone are the days of a Simien, back to the basket scoring. Now days you shoot 3s and run screen and rolls. If you don't have versatile, almost position less players you are going to struggle. I love Self going after these 'high' level guards but as long as D-Mac is on the roster it is going to be a struggle because he isn't efficient in todays game and is a liability when you get him on screen and rolls on the defensive end.

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:53 amWhether its true or not, whether its fair or not Self gets a knock for not 'using' five star guards well. Has great success with those that stick around but the one and done guys that come here I know for a fact other coaches use that against KU because they haven't fared as well as expected.

And some of the perception is actually pretty unfair. The fact is that most 5* guards really need 2-3 years to put it together to be really great players. There are only 1-2 Suggs/Cunninghams per recruiting class.

But, the perception is that if you are 5*, you should compete for All-American status right away, without realizing that most players ranked like 7-25 are not actually good enough to be OAD and nothing a coach can do will change that. That is why they are not ranked Top 5.

We get a ton of players ranked around there, and instead of being lauded for out recruiting 98% of D-1 programs, there is criticism that Self somehow ruined Quentin Grimes.

Re: Dave’s post scoring, on second thought, yeah I agree.

If he understood positioning well enough to score before he gets the ball, what the defense is doing to our guards should be moot. He should have his man beat before the pass is even made, and score quick before secondary defenders can come help.

He needs to watch tape of Dok (yes I know Dok was bigger with way more wingspan), but that shouldn’t matter much for footwork.

Dave weighs as much as senior Dok, which I think is tied for heaviest big Self has had, yet he doesn’t use his mass to his advantage. Even if he’s getting the ball in spots Dok would dunk, Dave should still at least be able to get a layup out of it.

Heck, he needs to watch tape of Landen Lucas, who was better at sealing his man, despite not being as big.

Yea, the double team usually didn’t come until he got the ball and collected, but even if that’s the case, he needs to get better about realizing it and quickly moving the ball, cuz if he’s double teamed then somebody else is open.

Too often, he’d try to put unit up over or through the double team, which is a low percentage shot and exactly what opponents hope he’ll do.

I kinda wonder if it might help Dave to loose like 15 pounds...

And re: 5 star guards, it’s crazy that the only one who really panned out was Dotson. (Wait, Chalmers too, even though he was more off the ball, at least to get going).

Our best guards in Frank and Devonte (and heck, Tyshawn) weren’t super high ranked, and even ended up at KU on in pretty roundabout ways, but ended up overachieving relative to HS rankings.

Even then, we haven’t attracted a ton of 5 star guard talent...Selby? Anyone else?

Our 5 stars tended to be more wings and bigs.