Kansas Crimson

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:51 am I think the Seahawks easily won this deal. Denver now has a mediocre team with no assets while Seattle gets to build a team around a QB on a rookie deal again. That worked out great for them last time. In fact, that's what usually works out unless you have Peyton or Brady (and hopefully soon to be Mahomes)

2017 - Foles - $1.0M
2013 - Wilson - $0.5M
2012 - Flacco - $6.7M
2011 - E. Manning - $6.5M
2010 - Rodgers - $6.0M
2009 - Brees - $4.5M
2008 - Roethlisberger $2.5M
2007 - E. Manning - $6.5M

This trend also works well for the QB's who lost in the SB. Burrow, Mahomes, Garoppolo, Goff, Kaepernick, Newton, Roethlisberger, Warner, Hasselbeck, Grossman

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:54 am I don't think it is out of the question that the Hawks flip some of that draft capital for a veteran QB if Pete Carroll has his way.

But, just straight out releasing Bobby Wagner means something weird is going down. The consensus around the country seems to be that Seattle lost the trade, and that's where I lean, a lot because of the new cap. The players that Seattle received just don't move the needle.

Yeah, they're rebuilding. Like they should

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:57 am

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:51 am I think the Seahawks easily won this deal. Denver now has a mediocre team with no assets while Seattle gets to build a team around a QB on a rookie deal again. That worked out great for them last time. In fact, that's what usually works out unless you have Peyton or Brady (and hopefully soon to be Mahomes)

2017 - Foles - $1.0M
2013 - Wilson - $0.5M
2012 - Flacco - $6.7M
2011 - E. Manning - $6.5M
2010 - Rodgers - $6.0M
2009 - Brees - $4.5M
2008 - Roethlisberger $2.5M
2007 - E. Manning - $6.5M

This trend also works well for the QB's who lost in the SB. Burrow, Mahomes, Garoppolo, Goff, Kaepernick, Newton, Roethlisberger, Warner, Hasselbeck, Grossman

Cap will likely change things.

But, the NFL has no one to blame but itself if the same thing happens again and Mahomes, Rodgers, et al. are making $50-$60m per season.

KC should try to get Wagner. Would probably require a creative contract to get a deal done.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:51 am Where chiefs fans get annoyingly smug is when they start floating around the notion that other teams shouldn't even try to win or compete because how could any AFC team even think they could ever beat the chiefs in the playoffs for the next 15 years?

I don't know if the Broncos made a good move, time will tell, but I don't think you can do any evaluation without the context of the team sale and that they've been coveting a franchise QB for awhile when the division rivals all have one.

I don't think the other AFC West teams should stop trying. I just think that a move like this that lands you a sub-elite quarterback is just unlikely to have a happy ending. And I think that's what Russ is now and will be going forward.

What is next in the game of QB dominos?

Washington is rumored to be interested in Jimmy Garoppolo and after yesterday's moves the 49ers seem to think they can get a first round pick for him. What's Seattle going to do? If Minnesota is interested in unloading Kirk Cousins, Seattle could flip some of that draft capital they got from Denver to make that happen. And will someone make an offer to Green Bay for Jordan Love?

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:09 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:51 am Where chiefs fans get annoyingly smug is when they start floating around the notion that other teams shouldn't even try to win or compete because how could any AFC team even think they could ever beat the chiefs in the playoffs for the next 15 years?

I don't know if the Broncos made a good move, time will tell, but I don't think you can do any evaluation without the context of the team sale and that they've been coveting a franchise QB for awhile when the division rivals all have one.

I don't think the other AFC West teams should stop trying. I just think that a move like this that lands you a sub-elite quarterback is just unlikely to have a happy ending. And I think that's what Russ is now and will be going forward.

I get it, and I think that's where the Denver context comes in: shoot for Rodgers but will settle for Wilson was clearly the plan.

I think we start to oversell draft capital. Only using this anecdote b/c it's the one I know: no team had more picks in the last 4-5 years than Minnesota. We can go up and down the first rounds every year and find 10-15+ guys that weren't worth the pick.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:14 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:09 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:51 am Where chiefs fans get annoyingly smug is when they start floating around the notion that other teams shouldn't even try to win or compete because how could any AFC team even think they could ever beat the chiefs in the playoffs for the next 15 years?

I don't know if the Broncos made a good move, time will tell, but I don't think you can do any evaluation without the context of the team sale and that they've been coveting a franchise QB for awhile when the division rivals all have one.

I don't think the other AFC West teams should stop trying. I just think that a move like this that lands you a sub-elite quarterback is just unlikely to have a happy ending. And I think that's what Russ is now and will be going forward.

I get it, and I think that's where the Denver context comes in: shoot for Rodgers but will settle for Wilson was clearly the plan.

I think we start to oversell draft capital. Only using this anecdote b/c it's the one I know: no team had more picks in the last 4-5 years than Minnesota. We can go up and down the first rounds every year and find 10-15+ guys that weren't worth the pick.

Minnesota also wasted too much of their cap space on a mediocre quarterback.

UnholyLivingDead wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:11 am What is next in the game of QB dominos?

Washington is rumored to be interested in Jimmy Garoppolo and after yesterday's moves the 49ers seem to think they can get a first round pick for him. What's Seattle going to do? If Minnesota is interested in unloading Kirk Cousins, Seattle could flip some of that draft capital they got from Denver to make that happen. And will someone make an offer to Green Bay for Jordan Love?

I would not want my team to trade for Garoppolo or Jordan Love if I were trying to win now.

A team might be dumb and desperate for Cousins, but even with the new cap, the contract makes no sense for almost any team. He will almost assuredly get moved next offseason.

Something will happen, though. What's Pittsburgh and Tampa going to do? DeShaun Watson playing in 2022?

Cascadia wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:16 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:14 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:09 am

I don't think the other AFC West teams should stop trying. I just think that a move like this that lands you a sub-elite quarterback is just unlikely to have a happy ending. And I think that's what Russ is now and will be going forward.

I get it, and I think that's where the Denver context comes in: shoot for Rodgers but will settle for Wilson was clearly the plan.

I think we start to oversell draft capital. Only using this anecdote b/c it's the one I know: no team had more picks in the last 4-5 years than Minnesota. We can go up and down the first rounds every year and find 10-15+ guys that weren't worth the pick.

Minnesota also wasted too much of their cap space on a mediocre quarterback.

Sure, but more to the point is that those picks aren't panning out. Was maybe the worst defense in the league.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:14 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:09 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:51 am Where chiefs fans get annoyingly smug is when they start floating around the notion that other teams shouldn't even try to win or compete because how could any AFC team even think they could ever beat the chiefs in the playoffs for the next 15 years?

I don't know if the Broncos made a good move, time will tell, but I don't think you can do any evaluation without the context of the team sale and that they've been coveting a franchise QB for awhile when the division rivals all have one.

I don't think the other AFC West teams should stop trying. I just think that a move like this that lands you a sub-elite quarterback is just unlikely to have a happy ending. And I think that's what Russ is now and will be going forward.

I get it, and I think that's where the Denver context comes in: shoot for Rodgers but will settle for Wilson was clearly the plan.

I think we start to oversell draft capital. Only using this anecdote b/c it's the one I know: no team had more picks in the last 4-5 years than Minnesota. We can go up and down the first rounds every year and find 10-15+ guys that weren't worth the pick.

I think it's an underwhelming deal for both sides.

Denver will regret not having five picks that should turn into at least three starters on rookie contracts. Seattle will regret getting five picks that are unlikely to net them even one star-level guy on a rookie contract.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:20 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:14 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:09 am

I don't think the other AFC West teams should stop trying. I just think that a move like this that lands you a sub-elite quarterback is just unlikely to have a happy ending. And I think that's what Russ is now and will be going forward.

I get it, and I think that's where the Denver context comes in: shoot for Rodgers but will settle for Wilson was clearly the plan.

I think we start to oversell draft capital. Only using this anecdote b/c it's the one I know: no team had more picks in the last 4-5 years than Minnesota. We can go up and down the first rounds every year and find 10-15+ guys that weren't worth the pick.

I think it's an underwhelming deal for both sides.

Denver will regret not having five picks that should turn into at least three starters on rookie contracts. Seattle will regret getting five picks that are unlikely to net them even one star-level guy on a rookie contract.

That is probably why these things almost never happen. It's one of the biggest trades in NFL history.

Herschel Walker trade lesson was a favor for the rest of the league.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:25 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:20 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:14 am

I get it, and I think that's where the Denver context comes in: shoot for Rodgers but will settle for Wilson was clearly the plan.

I think we start to oversell draft capital. Only using this anecdote b/c it's the one I know: no team had more picks in the last 4-5 years than Minnesota. We can go up and down the first rounds every year and find 10-15+ guys that weren't worth the pick.

I think it's an underwhelming deal for both sides.

Denver will regret not having five picks that should turn into at least three starters on rookie contracts. Seattle will regret getting five picks that are unlikely to net them even one star-level guy on a rookie contract.

That is probably why these things almost never happen. It's one of the biggest trades in NFL history.

Herschel Walker trade lesson was a favor for the rest of the league.

Or Ricky Williams.

With new playoff rules, I think we even more start to see these GM's think that you just have to get into the playoffs and you have a shot. 4 seeds in the Super Bowl doesn't help that flawed thinking.

I'm with CnB on Russ's skill level.
I think he's a top 10 QB for the next 4-6 years.
And if that's the case, it was easily worth what they gave up.

Wentz to Washington for two 3s.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:33 am I'm with CnB on Russ's skill level.
I think he's a top 10 QB for the next 4-6 years.
And if that's the case, it was easily worth what they gave up.

Man I don't know. By ESPN's QBR (not endorsing, just using as a quick-and-dirty)...

2017

8. Stafford
9. Brees
10. Wilson

2018

8. Winston
9. Ryan
10. Goff

2019

8. Fitzpatrick
9. Tannehill
10. Carr

2020

8. Wilson
9. Brady
10. Mayfield

2021

8. Tannehill
9. Wentz
10. Wilson

By my count, QBs in these slots (Goff in 2018, Brady in 2020) accounted for two out of ten Super Bowl QBs starts over this span.

Obviously Wilson being Goff in Denver will not be satisfactory. Do you really count on him being Brady?

That will get them into the playoffs, and again, I think that's what teams are going for now.

I would also assume that some of the picks given up were from trading away this guy, which, what a tweet.

I'm against giving up draft capital for unproven players. And generally for most positions except QB.

Wilson is proven and a QB.

There weren't any game changing QBs in this draft and in a league, and division, that is all about the QB, Denver made the right call. They weren't going to win with Lock. They can win now.

AFC West is now the best division in football.

Denver is still behind

KC
Buffalo
Cincinnati
Baltimore
Tennessee
New England

Probably behind LA Chargers

If Cleveland could figure out the QB spot (this would have been one of the better landing spots for Wilson), they would easily be ahead of Denver.

Houston is ahead of Denver if Watson returns (not sure how that's all going to play out. It is the NFL)

Pittsburgh is still one of the best organizations in football and I wouldn't count on them turning to shit without Roethlisberger

Indianapolis has one of the best RB's in football and are trending up.

Las Vegas just went 10-7

So yeah, you're definitely ahead of the Jets, Jaguars and probably even with Miami.

The AFC is loaded and Denver just mortgaged the next 4-5 years to maybe compete for a playoff spot.

Sorry, but Wilson just isn't that guy