Kansas Crimson

Everyone in politics tends to manipulate the truth some. Some way worse then others. Motives are important to analyze. Some are just trying to increase their own power and others are trying to limit the power of others

zsn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:30 pm THIS…….is the real reason why Griner’s release was on the table and Whelan’s was not. Putin’s biggest success is dividing the US popular opinion. Randy, Mich and to some extent ousie are evidence.

They are? What about you? You've very clearly let yourself be manipulated to join team left. Come out to team nothing where it's so much easier not having to defend a side.

And also, this has nothing to do with Putin.

randylahey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:59 pm

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:57 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:40 pm

They have a lot more informed opinions than you or I ever will. Based on their professions and connections. Both are highly intelligent people. Have you ever read any of their stuff? Or do you just know you are supposed to beleive that they are the bad people

I dont always agree with either of em. But. They aren't scared to speak the truth even if it's not politically correct. That takes courage these days

I'm sorry, I was trying to think of a kinder way of saying this and couldn't come up with one.
You're bat shit fucking crazy if you think both are highly intelligent people - and they speak the truth.

But you trust someone like faucci or biden?

Someone "like" Faucci or Biden? I don't know anyone who is like those two.
Do I trust Faucci and Biden? About some things, yes. About other things, no.
There isn't a single person on this planet I trust 100%.

Yes, I do believe Candace Owens speaks the truth about some things and I believe Jr. speaks the truth about some things. Whether I agree with them or not.
I also believe/know they both say things that aren't true.
I believe neither of them are "highly intelligent". Unless by "highly intelligent" you mean they are good at manipulation and are con artists. That I would agree with you about.

randylahey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:36 pm

zsn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:30 pm THIS…….is the real reason why Griner’s release was on the table and Whelan’s was not. Putin’s biggest success is dividing the US popular opinion. Randy, Mich and to some extent ousie are evidence.

Griners release was on the table because she was completely valueless to putin. And he used her to get back the merchant of death.

It would be like if the pistons talked the bucks into trading them Giannis for a 2nd round pick

How could she be ""completely" valueless if he used her to get back the "Merchant of Death"? She was of high value to him in regards to the "trade". Well, I suppose in theory she was of higher value to the USA than she was to Putin but at least she was of some value to Putin.
I do agree with you 100% that it was like if the Pistons talked the Bucks in to trading them Giannis for a 2nd round pick - in regards to the trade value and potential (probable?) negative repercussions of the trade.

the Viktor Bout guy was the inspiration for "Lord of War"? I did not know that.

randylahey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:59 pm

Eh, they have been trying to get Whalen but the Russians will not give him up. They like having a US Marine who is convicted of espionage. A black lesbian basketball player convicted of having a hash pipe in her luggage? Not so much.

It's incomprehensibly stupid for anyone to try to make it sound like the US has some of choice and chose Griner over Whalen. But once again, Candace Owens just pours gasoline on the fire to win supporters even though she is smart enough to know exactly how these things work.

From the WH: ""The president felt a moral obligation to bring Brittney home. There was an opportunity to do that, and it was either Brittney or no one at all, and we are not going to apologize for that.

...Here were our choices. Our choices were Brittney or no one at all--Bringing home one American or no American at all."

But here we are, rolling through 2 pages of stupidity because Candace freaking Owens dropped a turd in the punch bowl under the guise of "she's not afraid to speak the truth". Nothing about her tweet was truthful.

Gosh, I am glad we didn't do any of that during those 4 years Trump was president.

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:29 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:59 pm

Eh, they have been trying to get Whalen but the Russians will not give him up. They like having a US Marine who is convicted of espionage. A black lesbian basketball player convicted of having a hash pipe in her luggage? Not so much.

It's incomprehensibly stupid for anyone to try to make it sound like the US has some of choice and chose Griner over Whalen. But once again, Candace Owens just pours gasoline on the fire to win supporters even though she is smart enough to know exactly how these things work.

From the WH: ""The president felt a moral obligation to bring Brittney home. There was an opportunity to do that, and it was either Brittney or no one at all, and we are not going to apologize for that.

...Here were our choices. Our choices were Brittney or no one at all--Bringing home one American or no American at all."

But here we are, rolling through 2 pages of stupidity because Candace freaking Owens dropped a turd in the punch bowl under the guise of "she's not afraid to speak the truth". Nothing about her tweet was truthful.

I think some people's biggest point was that if you couldn't have both or Whelan, then Russia shouldn't have gotten that guy. Lots of people, Republicans mostly only, thinking the guy is going to be a menace because Russia is actively in a war and he's been a guy who did some crazy stuff back in the day.

… Bill Richardson, the former governor of New Mexico who runs a private organization dedicated to hostage negotiations, visited Russia in the fall and discussed the possibility of a two-for-two swap that included Mr. Whelan, according to a person with direct knowledge of the discussions. The Russians came back to American negotiators both in and outside the administration insisting that they wanted three or four prisoners released, the person said.

“Back and forth it went until it was one-for-one,” the person added.

Despite Moscow’s hard-line stance over the fall, some U.S. officials said they hoped the Russian government would be more inclined to cut a deal for both Americans after the midterm elections...

vlad unreasonable? nah…

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:06 pm … Bill Richardson, the former governor of New Mexico who runs a private organization dedicated to hostage negotiations, visited Russia in the fall and discussed the possibility of a two-for-two swap that included Mr. Whelan, according to a person with direct knowledge of the discussions. The Russians came back to American negotiators both in and outside the administration insisting that they wanted three or four prisoners released, the person said.

“Back and forth it went until it was one-for-one,” the person added.

Despite Moscow’s hard-line stance over the fall, some U.S. officials said they hoped the Russian government would be more inclined to cut a deal for both Americans after the midterm elections...

vlad unreasonable? nah…

After the midterm elections. Smh.

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:22 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:06 pm … Bill Richardson, the former governor of New Mexico who runs a private organization dedicated to hostage negotiations, visited Russia in the fall and discussed the possibility of a two-for-two swap that included Mr. Whelan, according to a person with direct knowledge of the discussions. The Russians came back to American negotiators both in and outside the administration insisting that they wanted three or four prisoners released, the person said.

“Back and forth it went until it was one-for-one,” the person added.

Despite Moscow’s hard-line stance over the fall, some U.S. officials said they hoped the Russian government would be more inclined to cut a deal for both Americans after the midterm elections...

vlad unreasonable? nah…

After the midterm elections. Smh.

it’s from the WSJ if you care to actually read the rest of it

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:08 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:29 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:59 pm

Eh, they have been trying to get Whalen but the Russians will not give him up. They like having a US Marine who is convicted of espionage. A black lesbian basketball player convicted of having a hash pipe in her luggage? Not so much.

It's incomprehensibly stupid for anyone to try to make it sound like the US has some of choice and chose Griner over Whalen. But once again, Candace Owens just pours gasoline on the fire to win supporters even though she is smart enough to know exactly how these things work.

From the WH: ""The president felt a moral obligation to bring Brittney home. There was an opportunity to do that, and it was either Brittney or no one at all, and we are not going to apologize for that.

...Here were our choices. Our choices were Brittney or no one at all--Bringing home one American or no American at all."

But here we are, rolling through 2 pages of stupidity because Candace freaking Owens dropped a turd in the punch bowl under the guise of "she's not afraid to speak the truth". Nothing about her tweet was truthful.

I think some people's biggest point was that if you couldn't have both or Whelan, then Russia shouldn't have gotten that guy. Lots of people, Republicans mostly only, thinking the guy is going to be a menace because Russia is actively in a war and he's been a guy who did some crazy stuff back in the day.

1( I haven't seen anyone say that if you couldn't get both for him then the deal shouldn't have been done because that is inhumane. This isn't a Madden franchise mode trade. Any time you can get an American home you should do it.

2) Our country is full of defense contractors who have sold weapons of war to questionable sources.

3) I wouldn't be surprised to see Bout meet an unexpected demise after Whalen is finally released.

Wasn’t Bout just about done serving his sentence?

1) i don't think we should ALWAYS trade whoever for whoever just because "anytime you can bring an American home you do it". Sorry. Some people we have captured and imprisoned simply don't deserve to be released.

Overlander wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:49 pm Wasn’t Bout just about done serving his sentence?

He was sentenced to 25 years in 2012.

Really hurts my feelbads to be mocked by rooskies. Sorry you're such a snowflake randy.