huggs, goodness ...

[pdub]

They don't need to own anything.
They certainly will be judged. And there will be negative consequences.
But they don't need to go out and say what you want them to say, "we are ok with bigotry as long as it's not on the radio and Huggins is too good a coach to let go," because they have a different opinion on how to handle the situation.

And definitely, it was trash, and he should know better and be better.
Just because I ( or others, including those in charge at WVU ) think there are other actions than firing him doesn't mean that we don't understand what he did and what it quite possibly means about him.

[jfish26]

This is same crap that’s wrong with our political party system, fish. Either with or it against us.

Why not hold accountable and give shot at change without cancelling his livelihood?

It’s very weird to me that we sometimes treat loss of privileges like loss of rights. Why should he be entitled to keep his top-of-field job?

If he sucked at his job, would WVU keep him around after this?

Of course not.

So, if they keep him around, it’s because they choose winning with him over (probably) losing without him, despite what that choice says about WVU otherwise.

And that’s a reasonable choice. One I’d probably hope we’d make in the situation. But I wouldn’t make myself feel better about it by taking comfort in silly performative charades.

[jfish26]

They don't need to own anything.
They certainly will be judged. And there will be negative consequences.
But they don't need to go out and say what you want them to say, "we are ok with bigotry as long as it's not on the radio and Huggins is too good a coach to let go," because they have a different opinion on how to handle the situation.

Actions speak louder than words. If they keep him, that action is telling you more than their words possibly could. Which, again, is fine. But miss me with the soft-focus bullshit.

[Back2Lawrence]

I don’t think you are in bizarro-land. I agree with everything you just said up until the last paragraph. It’s not an either/or in terms of ‘values’. There can be other lessons learned/taken from different types of consequence.

I don’t think anyone here would be happy with the ‘coffee and donut’ meetings. Nor do I think anyone has hinted that the behavior is ok, or excusable. But it is forgivable, and (hopefully) a situation that can impact positive change from many (including Huggins)

[Back2Lawrence]

They don't need to own anything.
They certainly will be judged. And there will be negative consequences.
But they don't need to go out and say what you want them to say, "we are ok with bigotry as long as it's not on the radio and Huggins is too good a coach to let go," because they have a different opinion on how to handle the situation.

Actions speak louder than words. If they keep him, that action is telling you more than their words possibly could. Which, again, is fine. But miss me with the soft-focus bullshit.

Dude. His actions were literally words.

[pdub]

I once let lorem ipsum get pushed live to an entire website the day it was launched.
It was a huge mistake. You could say I very much sucked at my job at that very instant.
But my boss didn't fire me on the spot. I didn't get to be on the next big project. And I learned from that mistake and got better.

There are things in-between.

[pdub]

They don't need to own anything.
They certainly will be judged. And there will be negative consequences.
But they don't need to go out and say what you want them to say, "we are ok with bigotry as long as it's not on the radio and Huggins is too good a coach to let go," because they have a different opinion on how to handle the situation.

Actions speak louder than words. If they keep him, that action is telling you more than their words possibly could. Which, again, is fine. But miss me with the soft-focus bullshit.

I guess you should tell the thousands of organizations/groups in the US trying to teach bias or fix prejudice that they are worthless. People already set in their ways, they can't be changed, you're wasting your time.

[Back2Lawrence]

Also of importance, and I haven’t said. I’d be ok with him getting fired, I just think that offers the least amount t of potential opportunity to impart significant change in attitudes/values.

[PhDhawk]

This is same crap that’s wrong with our political party system, fish. Either with or it against us.

Why not hold accountable and give shot at change without cancelling his livelihood?

I agree with what you're saying. But "livelihood" seems melodramatic. It's a pretty cushy gig when you can take a million dollar paycut and still be paid multimillions.

And I think that's an important point. He's not a plumber or an accountant who's putting food on the table and a roof over his kid's head.

I am not saying he should be fired. But this isn't just a job. Don't apply this to your own careers....there's a big difference...especially at a public university.

[jfish26]

I once let lorem ipsum get pushed live to an entire website the day it was launched.
It was a huge mistake. You could say I very much sucked at my job at that very instant.
But my boss didn't fire me on the spot. I didn't get to be on the next big project. And I learned from that mistake and got better.

There are things in-between.

But this wasn’t a job performance mistake. I don’t think it’s fairly characterized as a mistake at all. It wasn’t a slip of the tongue, it wasn’t an off the cuff private remark being taken out of context, it wasn’t a misunderstanding.

AGAIN - I think there’s a case for keeping him. I just think that theatrics should not soften the landing at all. If you keep him, you’re saying that the error was in saying what he said, when he said it, where he said it, how he said it. You’re saying that you will regard the error as being corrected if he doesn’t do it again.

Which, again, is fine. I’m not out here with a torch and pitchfork. Like I said, I’d probably support keeping Bill in a similar situation. But I would be clear-eyed about what keeping him means. It simply DOES mean condoning some gross shit, as the cost of winning basketball games.

[surly]

the irony here is pretty thick. you know every school in the country was saying the same thing about ku and bill self not long ago considering the fbi matter. were you?

wvu made a reasonable choice. you may or may not like it. but it was consistent with their values. just as ku did with bill self when everyone else said he should be canned.

[MICHHAWK]

the social medias does not like it when it doesn't get to be judge, jury and executioner.

[jfish26]

They don't need to own anything.
They certainly will be judged. And there will be negative consequences.
But they don't need to go out and say what you want them to say, "we are ok with bigotry as long as it's not on the radio and Huggins is too good a coach to let go," because they have a different opinion on how to handle the situation.

Actions speak louder than words. If they keep him, that action is telling you more than their words possibly could. Which, again, is fine. But miss me with the soft-focus bullshit.

I guess you should tell the thousands of organizations/groups in the US trying to teach bias or fix prejudice that they are worthless. People already set in their ways, they can't be changed, you're wasting your time.

Ok - now say that back to me, taking in and including this context:



Did Huggins learn from this?

[jfish26]

the irony here is pretty thick. you know every school in the country was saying the same thing about ku and bill self not long ago considering the fbi matter. were you?

wvu made a reasonable choice. you may or may not like it. but it was consistent with their values. just as ku did with bill self when everyone else said he should be canned.

Apples and hand grenades.

[Back2Lawrence]

[quote=jfish26 post_id=335173



Did Huggins learn from this?
[/quote]

Maybe learning from this takes longer than the 24 hour news/Twitter cycle.

[jfish26]

This is same crap that’s wrong with our political party system, fish. Either with or it against us.

Why not hold accountable and give shot at change without cancelling his livelihood?

I agree with what you're saying. But "livelihood" seems melodramatic. It's a pretty cushy gig when you can take a million dollar paycut and still be paid multimillions.

And I think that's an important point. He's not a plumber or an accountant who's putting food on the table and a roof over his kid's head.

I am not saying he should be fired. But this isn't just a job. Don't apply this to your own careers....there's a big difference...especially at a public university.

Yes.

[jfish26]

[quote=jfish26 post_id=335173



Did Huggins learn from this?

Maybe learning from this takes longer than the 24 hour news/Twitter cycle.
[/quote]

What? I’m asking what he learned from his friend making the same “mistake” three years ago. If this truly wasn’t something endemic to his character…how did this happen to him now?

[pdub]

Actions speak louder than words. If they keep him, that action is telling you more than their words possibly could. Which, again, is fine. But miss me with the soft-focus bullshit.

I guess you should tell the thousands of organizations/groups in the US trying to teach bias or fix prejudice that they are worthless. People already set in their ways, they can't be changed, you're wasting your time.

Ok - now say that back to me, taking in and including this context:



Did Huggins learn from this?

LOL.
Go tell those thousands of organization/groups that that guy will do their job just as well.

[jfish26]

I guess you should tell the thousands of organizations/groups in the US trying to teach bias or fix prejudice that they are worthless. People already set in their ways, they can't be changed, you're wasting your time.

Ok - now say that back to me, taking in and including this context:



Did Huggins learn from this?

LOL.
Go tell those thousands of organization/groups that that guy will do their job just as well.

I’m not following.

[pdub]

I don't think Thom Brennamen is the best person to teach why using terms like the terms they both used is hurtful.

While he certainly may have learned something AND changed his character it's a. also possible he didn't and b. likely better to talk with people who are directly affected.