Kansas Crimson

probably (likely?) no senior night speech

for me at least, that says a lot about how Vick views/values this place

There are also rumors that he’s a long way away from a degree. Would be just the 3rd Self 4-year player to leave without a degree, negatively affecting the team APR.

IIRC correctly, he’d be the only player to be kicked off the team midseason. That’s a legacy. It’s like ignoring J.R.’s Moon Bar—of course that’s the legacy.

Essentially, after begging to come back, Vick was here for the non-con, and then the worst 1/3 of the conference season and then was presumably booted or quit.

Those are reasons I could never rank him ahead of guys like Reed, Sleeves, Mari, Landen Lucas, DJax, Kaun, etc.....guys who he scored more points than, but guys who all left a legacy much greater than his...guys who all view KU as "home" and represent what it truly means to be a Jayhawk. Even a saluki can recognize that.

Not saying vick didnt do some good things. Its just a really small mediocre hill to dig in and die on. Strange.

Not dying on any hill.
I'll be here for as long as you guys want to dance.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:04 pm Look at the last games of tyrel reeds college career and tell me he helped Kansas. He and sleeves shot us out of the vcu game.

And Vick's last game was 7 points and 2 turnovers in 19 spaced out, lethargic, lackadaisical minutes in a loss at Kansas State that could cost us the streak of Big 12 titles.

This is like saying someone who earns over 130k a year is below average in terms of success.
In most people's metrics, the amount of money someone makes is a large factor in terms of how successful they are.
But because you don't like their house, or what they named their kids, you dock them a ton of points.

Check out Wiggins last game.

And we weren't gonna beat ksu at ksu with our without Vick.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:40 am Not dying on any hill.
I'll be here for as long as you guys want to dance.

Thats called dying on the hill

Just curious why you picked this particular instance to dig your trenches

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:50 am It’s probably the worst SENIOR(!!!) season under self.

He averaged 14.1 PPG on 48% FG, 46% 3FG.
The only other senior to shoot better than that distance was Frank Mason and Aaron Miles (and he didn't average 14 PPG but 9).
In fact, the only players who averaged more than 10 PPG and also shoot 46% from 3 are Brandon Rush, Frank Mason, Lagerald Vick ( junior year ), Perry Ellis, and Mario Chalmers.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:42 am

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:04 pm Look at the last games of tyrel reeds college career and tell me he helped Kansas. He and sleeves shot us out of the vcu game.

And Vick's last game was 7 points and 2 turnovers in 19 spaced out, lethargic, lackadaisical minutes in a loss at Kansas State that could cost us the streak of Big 12 titles.

Actually, Vick’s last game will likely be the last in a consecutive string of DNP-CD’s during the most important part of the conference season and all of the postseason. That’s way worse than the Kansas State game.

Even though box scores don’t do this, every game that Vick misses should be thought of as goose eggs and a hit to his stats per game average.

How many seniors have scored 30 points in their last season?
How many seniors have done it back to back?
I don't have the results but I'm gonna put it maybe at 3.

He's also the only player in Kansas history to hit 7 threes two games in a row.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:58 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:42 am

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:04 pm Look at the last games of tyrel reeds college career and tell me he helped Kansas. He and sleeves shot us out of the vcu game.

And Vick's last game was 7 points and 2 turnovers in 19 spaced out, lethargic, lackadaisical minutes in a loss at Kansas State that could cost us the streak of Big 12 titles.

Actually, Vick’s last game will likely be the last in a consecutive string of DNP-CD’s during the most important part of the conference season and all of the postseason. That’s way worse than the Kansas State game.

Even though box scores don’t do this, every game that Vick misses should be thought of as goose eggs and a hit to his stats per game average.

Man Udoka and Embiid have some really bad stats then.

Face palm.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:00 am IIRC correctly, he’d be the only player to be kicked off the team midseason. That’s a legacy.

Giles

Just know that the base of this current argument is that Vick was a below average player under Bill Self.
Or that he hurt us more than he helped us.
I'm not arguing he's a top 25 player under Self but I am arguing he was above average.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:07 am Face palm.

You said this last night:
"He's a 1,000pt scorer.
I stand by the statement that he's helped us more than he's hurt us. Even relative to average scholarship players. We've had a lot of guys not do shit, or transfer, or get forced out, etc."

You agree with me but are still arguing.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:13 am Just know that the base of this current argument is that Vick was a below average player under Bill Self.
Or that he hurt us more than he helped us.
I'm not arguing he's a top 25 player under Self but I am arguing he was above average.

Well - what's happening is you know you're losing on your real argument, so you're picking out easier windmills to tilt at.

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:12 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:00 am IIRC correctly, he’d be the only player to be kicked off the team midseason. That’s a legacy.

Giles

Ah, yep. It was actually before the first game. But, it happened so early that I forgot it was during the school year. So, 2 players out of 100's.