Kansas Crimson

All lives matter never was racist. The problem is, people are defining words to mean whatever they want in 2020. Anything can be "racist" now.

Walrus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:18 am All lives matter never was racist. The problem is, people are defining words to mean whatever they want in 2020. Anything can be "racist" now.

All lives matter wouldnt have been viewed as racist if it existed before black lives matter and if it wasnt frequently used as a rebuttal for the statement black lives matter...but it didnt exist before the black lives matter phrase started circulating.

If all lives matter then black lives matter and it doesnt need to be used against the phrase black lives matter. The phrase isnt "ONLY black lives matter" and if it did then i wouldnt agree with it and all lives matter would be an acceptable response....but since it isnt about ONLY black lives mattering then it is a the very least rude, and possibly racist in some scenarios, to respond to black lives matter with all lives matter.

It would be like going to a cancer fundraiser and losing my shit screaming "heart disease matters too!". It is rude. It is unnecessary. And in some cases it used by racist people who dont really think all lives matter.

Hell my racist aunt had the audacity to post "white lives matter" on FaceBook like an idiot and then tried to play the victim when my cousin who has a 3yr old kid who is half black got offended.

It is interesting how one can post "black lives matter," "Hispanic lives matter", Jewish lives matter" or "Indian lives matter". But if someone posts "white lives matter", only then is it racist.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:06 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:47 am Frankly, there is going to be so much pro-Trump resistance to Biden's administration that it seems like anyone who accepts the VP nomination ought to expect to be handcuffed if they choose to run for Pesident in 2024.

I am sure there will be some payback BS, but i think you vastly over exaggerate how many "pro trump" senators there will be once trump isnt president anymore. A lot of them hate him, but know they cant publicly come out and say it to the press...because what would they have to gain by starting that shit storm?

I didn't say anything about senators. You added that.

I believe that the Trumpers are going to flood Facebook and other social media outlets with a never ending wave of overreactive complaints that will make running for President in 2024 difficult for Biden's VP selection.

Walrus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:40 am It is interesting how one can post "black lives matter," "Hispanic lives matter", Jewish lives matter" or "Indian lives matter". But if someone posts "white lives matter", only then is it racist.

I understand what you are saying, but white lives have always mattered in this country.

And it isnt the words themselves that make the statement racist. It is the meaning. It is the subliminal aspect of it only (99.9% of the time) being used as a response to the black lives matter statement.

It isnt the thought that white lives matter that is problematic at times. Of course white lives matter. But why the people are feeling the need to say it is what is interesting to me. Why does black lives matter make them feel white lives are somehow undervalued when they clearly arent?

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:07 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:06 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:47 am Frankly, there is going to be so much pro-Trump resistance to Biden's administration that it seems like anyone who accepts the VP nomination ought to expect to be handcuffed if they choose to run for Pesident in 2024.

I am sure there will be some payback BS, but i think you vastly over exaggerate how many "pro trump" senators there will be once trump isnt president anymore. A lot of them hate him, but know they cant publicly come out and say it to the press...because what would they have to gain by starting that shit storm?

I didn't say anything about senators. You added that.

I believe that the Trumpers are going to flood Facebook and other social media outlets with a never ending wave of overreactive complaints that will make running for President in 2024 difficult for Biden's VP selection.

Sorry....i was thrown off by your comments about it being really toxic if the dems win the senate. So i thought you were speaking of senators specifically. Thanks for clarifying.

To your 2nd point: you mean like Dems have done during the trump presidency? .... not that in many instances he hasnt deserved it, because he has/does....but lets not pretend that overreactive complaints on social media are specific to 1 party. Since the boom of social media both sides have made good use of that tactic.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:10 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:40 am It is interesting how one can post "black lives matter," "Hispanic lives matter", Jewish lives matter" or "Indian lives matter". But if someone posts "white lives matter", only then is it racist.

I understand what you are saying, but white lives have always mattered in this country.

And it isnt the words themselves that make the statement racist. It is the meaning. It is the subliminal aspect of it only (99.9% of the time) being used as a response to the black lives matter statement.

It isnt the thought that white lives matter that is problematic at times. Of course white lives matter. But why the people are feeling the need to say it is what is interesting to me. Why does black lives matter make them feel white lives are somehow undervalued when they clearly arent?

This is where I think we disagree slightly. I agree that the intention could be racist. That is possible, yes. But I know a lot of people who say "all lives matter" are not intending to be racist -- they just want to be inclusive of everyone. Since a lot of non-whites are wanting this country to become more inclusive, it should include everyone, right?

I don't think it's an undervalued thing, but rather, this idea that people are claiming whites are privileged. That assumption is often untrue, as you know, and a lot of whites are offended by it because a lot of them struggle just as much as any other race.

Bottom line is, this country is way too obsessed with race and identity politics.

Walrus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:18 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:10 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:40 am It is interesting how one can post "black lives matter," "Hispanic lives matter", Jewish lives matter" or "Indian lives matter". But if someone posts "white lives matter", only then is it racist.

I understand what you are saying, but white lives have always mattered in this country.

And it isnt the words themselves that make the statement racist. It is the meaning. It is the subliminal aspect of it only (99.9% of the time) being used as a response to the black lives matter statement.

It isnt the thought that white lives matter that is problematic at times. Of course white lives matter. But why the people are feeling the need to say it is what is interesting to me. Why does black lives matter make them feel white lives are somehow undervalued when they clearly arent?

This is where I think we disagree slightly. I agree that the intention could be racist. That is possible, yes. But I know a lot of people who say "all lives matter" are not intending to be racist -- they just want to be inclusive of everyone. Since a lot of non-whites are wanting this country to become more inclusive, it should include everyone, right?

I don't think it's an undervalued thing, but rather, this idea that people are claiming whites are privileged. That assumption is often untrue, as you know, and a lot of whites are offended by it because a lot of them struggle just as much as any other race.

Bottom line is, this country is way too obsessed with race and identity politics.

Yes this country is way too obsessed with identity politics...but i understand wanting to improve race issues.

Again, all lives matter would include black lives so someone saying black lives matter shouldnt be bothersome to people. It isnt an "only" thing, it is a "too" thing.

If they want to be inclusive so badly all they have to say is "yup black lives matter to me, we support you" and then they would be being inclusive and supportive....and then someday the phrase black lives matter wouldnt be needed anymore.

Illy, you make more sense than 95% of people on the politics forum. Glad to have you around.

Walrus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:40 am It is interesting how one can post "black lives matter," "Hispanic lives matter", Jewish lives matter" or "Indian lives matter". But if someone posts "white lives matter", only then is it racist.

Only one of these groups hasn't had any of the other groups try to enslave them or wipe them off the planet. You get no points for answering correctly.

We started this country by saying "Only White Male Lives Matter" and after 244 years, we still haven't figured out how to include everyone else equally.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:14 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:07 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:06 am

I am sure there will be some payback BS, but i think you vastly over exaggerate how many "pro trump" senators there will be once trump isnt president anymore. A lot of them hate him, but know they cant publicly come out and say it to the press...because what would they have to gain by starting that shit storm?

I didn't say anything about senators. You added that.

I believe that the Trumpers are going to flood Facebook and other social media outlets with a never ending wave of overreactive complaints that will make running for President in 2024 difficult for Biden's VP selection.

Sorry....i was thrown off by your comments about it being really toxic if the dems win the senate. So i thought you were speaking of senators specifically. Thanks for clarifying.

To your 2nd point: you mean like Dems have done during the trump presidency? .... not that in many instances he hasnt deserved it, because he has/does....but lets not pretend that overreactive complaints on social media are specific to 1 party. Since the boom of social media both sides have made good use of that tactic.

No, I dont mean like how the Dems have done. I agree with you that the vast majority of the time Trump has deserved to be called out and that there have been instances where overreactions happened. I believe that those percentages will stand on their head if Biden is elected and the vast majority of GOP freak out will be complete BS with only a small percentage of it justified.

Walrus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:40 am It is interesting how one can post "black lives matter," "Hispanic lives matter", Jewish lives matter" or "Indian lives matter". But if someone posts "white lives matter", only then is it racist.

Actually it's not interesting at all.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:04 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:14 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:07 pm
I didn't say anything about senators. You added that.

I believe that the Trumpers are going to flood Facebook and other social media outlets with a never ending wave of overreactive complaints that will make running for President in 2024 difficult for Biden's VP selection.

Sorry....i was thrown off by your comments about it being really toxic if the dems win the senate. So i thought you were speaking of senators specifically. Thanks for clarifying.

To your 2nd point: you mean like Dems have done during the trump presidency? .... not that in many instances he hasnt deserved it, because he has/does....but lets not pretend that overreactive complaints on social media are specific to 1 party. Since the boom of social media both sides have made good use of that tactic.

No, I dont mean like how the Dems have done. I agree with you that the vast majority of the time Trump has deserved to be called out and that there have been instances where overreactions happened. I believe that those percentages will stand on their head if Biden is elected and the vast majority of GOP freak out will be complete BS with only a small percentage of it justified.

We will see. I think it will be similar. although less frequent since biden wont say nearly as much stupid shit to overreact about.

I think you may be a little biased when it comes to dems because at times you may be one of the people freaking out overreacting. (Fwiw i dont mean that disrepectfully, just being honest that it is harder to see things as overreactions when you are more aligned with that side...and again, fwiw just for reference since it is needed: i dont identify as republican. In fact i am registered as a democrat and voted for Biden in the primary and will vote for him/against trump in the upcoming presidential election...so i am not some warped republican.)

In many cases intent matters more than verbatim words being used.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:07 pm In many cases intent matters more than verbatim words being used.

This.

Covfefe got a few laughs and Biden will no doubt have several covfefe moments ahead but I dont see myself having to wince every morning as I brace to read the news.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:47 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:04 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:14 pm

Sorry....i was thrown off by your comments about it being really toxic if the dems win the senate. So i thought you were speaking of senators specifically. Thanks for clarifying.

To your 2nd point: you mean like Dems have done during the trump presidency? .... not that in many instances he hasnt deserved it, because he has/does....but lets not pretend that overreactive complaints on social media are specific to 1 party. Since the boom of social media both sides have made good use of that tactic.

No, I dont mean like how the Dems have done. I agree with you that the vast majority of the time Trump has deserved to be called out and that there have been instances where overreactions happened. I believe that those percentages will stand on their head if Biden is elected and the vast majority of GOP freak out will be complete BS with only a small percentage of it justified.

We will see. I think it will be similar. although less frequent since biden wont say nearly as much stupid shit to overreact about.

I think you may be a little biased when it comes to dems because at times you may be one of the people freaking out overreacting. (Fwiw i dont mean that disrepectfully, just being honest that it is harder to see things as overreactions when you are more aligned with that side...and again, fwiw just for reference since it is needed: i dont identify as republican. In fact i am registered as a democrat and voted for Biden in the primary and will vote for him/against trump in the upcoming presidential election...so i am not some warped republican.)

That's a whole lotta CYA there, Illy. I kid, I kid, I get it. Seems like every post needs that these days.

We'll see indeed. I look forward to a day when I dont have to wince at the thought of reading the news in the morning and when "what did the President say last night" gets a boring response.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:43 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:47 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:04 pm
No, I dont mean like how the Dems have done. I agree with you that the vast majority of the time Trump has deserved to be called out and that there have been instances where overreactions happened. I believe that those percentages will stand on their head if Biden is elected and the vast majority of GOP freak out will be complete BS with only a small percentage of it justified.

We will see. I think it will be similar. although less frequent since biden wont say nearly as much stupid shit to overreact about.

I think you may be a little biased when it comes to dems because at times you may be one of the people freaking out overreacting. (Fwiw i dont mean that disrepectfully, just being honest that it is harder to see things as overreactions when you are more aligned with that side...and again, fwiw just for reference since it is needed: i dont identify as republican. In fact i am registered as a democrat and voted for Biden in the primary and will vote for him/against trump in the upcoming presidential election...so i am not some warped republican.)

That's a whole lotta CYA there, Illy. I kid, I kid, I get it. Seems like every post needs that these days.

We'll see indeed. I look forward to a day when I dont have to wince at the thought of reading the news in the morning and when "what did the President say last night" gets a boring response.

The social media BS started with Obama so turnabout is fair play, but it all makes me roll my eyes.

Tan suits, etc.

Social media is the devil...so we definitely agree there will undoubtedly be the continued trend of ridiculousness.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:06 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:43 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:47 pm

We will see. I think it will be similar. although less frequent since biden wont say nearly as much stupid shit to overreact about.

I think you may be a little biased when it comes to dems because at times you may be one of the people freaking out overreacting. (Fwiw i dont mean that disrepectfully, just being honest that it is harder to see things as overreactions when you are more aligned with that side...and again, fwiw just for reference since it is needed: i dont identify as republican. In fact i am registered as a democrat and voted for Biden in the primary and will vote for him/against trump in the upcoming presidential election...so i am not some warped republican.)

That's a whole lotta CYA there, Illy. I kid, I kid, I get it. Seems like every post needs that these days.

We'll see indeed. I look forward to a day when I dont have to wince at the thought of reading the news in the morning and when "what did the President say last night" gets a boring response.

The social media BS started with Obama so turnabout is fair play, but it all makes me roll my eyes.

Tan suits, etc.

Social media is the devil...so we definitely agree there will undoubtedly be the continued trend of ridiculousness.

So what's the Dem version of "tan suits" as it relates to Trump?

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:34 am
All lives matter wouldnt have been viewed as racist if it existed before black lives matter and if it wasnt frequently used as a rebuttal for the statement black lives matter...but it didnt exist before the black lives matter phrase started circulating.

If all lives matter then black lives matter and it doesnt need to be used against the phrase black lives matter. The phrase isnt "ONLY black lives matter" and if it did then i wouldnt agree with it and all lives matter would be an acceptable response....but since it isnt about ONLY black lives mattering then it is a the very least rude, and possibly racist in some scenarios, to respond to black lives matter with all lives matter.

An observation from a constant lurker with a paucity of posts:

This is one of your best posts, Illi. Taking it one step past the potential for rudeness or racism the use of the phrase in that context also reflects ignorance of and the lack of compassion or empathy for a race that has endured centuries of oppression in nearly every aspect of their daily life, even after they've been "freed."

To me, those that use the phrase all lives matter, in that context, are subconsciously exposing their true feelings about their own insecurities and their own status in their respective races, and responding as such gives them another moment to avoid confronting their own demons.