Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:59 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:55 am Ok, but still didn't answer the question. Other that inconsistent scoring numbers, what does he bring to make him "above average" in the Self era?

Shoots 47 and 46 percent from 3 his last 2 years. Inconsistent.

1/3 of his makes came during 3 games, he's played 23, where he shot 71%. Consistent.

Let's also just ignore the fact I asked for something that wasn't scoring, and you replying with scoring stats.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:05 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:00 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:58 am

Actually, Vick’s last game will likely be the last in a consecutive string of DNP-CD’s during the most important part of the conference season and all of the postseason. That’s way worse than the Kansas State game.

Even though box scores don’t do this, every game that Vick misses should be thought of as goose eggs and a hit to his stats per game average.

Man Udoka and Embiid have some really bad stats then.

I am pretty sure that missing games due to being injured should be viewed differently than missing games due to being an idiot.

Well he could actually have issues which this board has totally abandoned within the first moments it was announced.

Initially you have a point, some didn't believe it from the moment the news broke....but there are rumors floating around now that seem likely to be accurate. Especially when some sources have a history of being pretty in the know.

I think at this moment it's far more likely this isn't a personal issue.

And that's not even taking into consideration the 4 or 5 blatant comments/hints Self has given to the media about how the team is better/happier/more fun since the day he departed.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:07 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:59 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:55 am Ok, but still didn't answer the question. Other that inconsistent scoring numbers, what does he bring to make him "above average" in the Self era?

Shoots 47 and 46 percent from 3 his last 2 years. Inconsistent.

1/3 of his makes came during 3 games, he's played 23, where he shot 71%. Consistent.

Let's also just ignore the fact I asked for something that wasn't scoring, and you replying with scoring stats.

5 of his games this year he scored fewer than 10 points.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:11 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:07 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:59 am

Shoots 47 and 46 percent from 3 his last 2 years. Inconsistent.

1/3 of his makes came during 3 games, he's played 23, where he shot 71%. Consistent.

Let's also just ignore the fact I asked for something that wasn't scoring, and you replying with scoring stats.

5 of his games this year he scored fewer than 10 points.

Again, other than scoring.........

And 4 of those 5 were less than 7. One being zero.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:23 am Another thing that people aren't mentioning is if someone gets hurt during the season, can you count the rest of that season against them?
If we found out that Vick was bipolar/borderline would that change anyone's opinion?
I'd say very little judging from the amount of posters just coming back to this thread to flame.

If the details of why Vick is gone come out, that will greatly impact how I view the leave of absence and how that colors his legacy at KU.

I'm not sure that'll ever come out.

With what we know now, he is a very talented player who had some great moments, but never put it all together, and right now it looks like he quit on the team in his Sr. season. All those things are factors in his legacy.

Obviously quitting, or being kicked off for attitude type problems are different than an injury. A legitimate mental health issue or family tragedy would also be significantly different than qutting or being asked to leave for being a pain in the ass.

Regardless of the real issue, Self deserves a lot of heat/blame for the Vick saga. Even going back to the alleged kick to the girls face. Play with fire enough eventually you'll get burned. That applies to roster management and recruting tactics.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:13 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:11 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:07 am

1/3 of his makes came during 3 games, he's played 23, where he shot 71%. Consistent.

Let's also just ignore the fact I asked for something that wasn't scoring, and you replying with scoring stats.

5 of his games this year he scored fewer than 10 points.

Again, other than scoring.........

And 4 of those 5 were less than 7. One being zero.

If having 5 games at less than 10 points means you’re inconsistent then we’ve had a lot of inconsistent scorers at KU.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:20 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:13 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:11 am

5 of his games this year he scored fewer than 10 points.

Again, other than scoring.........

And 4 of those 5 were less than 7. One being zero.

If having 5 games at less than 10 points means you’re inconsistent then we’ve had a lot of inconsistent scorers at KU.

It's different when it's over 20% of your season and the only thing you bring to the table is scoring.

Tyrel vs Vick?

Neither will play another game. Why the debate? Vick will do his Senior Day speech and be back off to Memphis.

What did svi bring to the table other than scoring?
Vicks rebounding numbers and assist numbers are better than Svis.
4 RPG isn't bad for a guard. He had nearly 5 per game last season.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:18 am What did svi bring to the table other than scoring?
Vicks rebounding numbers and assist numbers are better than Svis.
4 RPG isn't bad for a guard.

You're missing context again. Sure, 4 RPG for a guard might not be bad, but it's not good in a 4-guard lineup when you are the most athletic of the guards. His rebounding was better when they were playing 2 bigs as opposed to 4 guards. How is that possible?

Svi brought defensive effort. Marvin Bagley had 16/10 being guarded almost exclusively by Svi. Sure, they doubled, but the primary defender in that game was Svi. Svi could also feed the post and dribble the ball more than 3 times without throwing it off his knee.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:18 am What did svi bring to the table other than scoring?
Vicks rebounding numbers and assist numbers are better than Svis.
4 RPG isn't bad for a guard.

You're missing context again. Sure, 4 RPG for a guard might not be bad, but it's not good in a 4-guard lineup when you are the most athletic of the guards. His rebounding was better when they were playing 2 bigs as opposed to 4 guards. How is that possible?

Svi brought defensive effort. Marvin Bagley had 16/10 being guarded almost exclusively by Svi. Sure, they doubled, but the primary defender in that game was Svi. Svi could also feed the post and dribble the ball more than 3 times without throwing it off his knee.

And Svi didn't string together braindead possessions with nearly the same frequency.

You can out whatever biased context to the numbers you want-he had 4 RPG this season and 5 last.

Svi played in a 4 guard lineup-whats his excuse?

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:18 am What did svi bring to the table other than scoring?
Vicks rebounding numbers and assist numbers are better than Svis.
4 RPG isn't bad for a guard.

You're missing context again. Sure, 4 RPG for a guard might not be bad, but it's not good in a 4-guard lineup when you are the most athletic of the guards. His rebounding was better when they were playing 2 bigs as opposed to 4 guards. How is that possible?

Svi brought defensive effort. Marvin Bagley had 16/10 being guarded almost exclusively by Svi. Sure, they doubled, but the primary defender in that game was Svi. Svi could also feed the post and dribble the ball more than 3 times without throwing it off his knee.

Svi got a hero's welcome at AFH this past Saturday. Rightfully so.

Vick just flat out isnt worth this level of argument. Some liked what he produced despite the issues. Some hated the issues despite the production. I doubt anyone has switched from one side of the debate to the other based on dozens of pages of arguments.

Then stop arguing.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:18 am What did svi bring to the table other than scoring?
Vicks rebounding numbers and assist numbers are better than Svis.
4 RPG isn't bad for a guard.

You're missing context again. Sure, 4 RPG for a guard might not be bad, but it's not good in a 4-guard lineup when you are the most athletic of the guards. His rebounding was better when they were playing 2 bigs as opposed to 4 guards. How is that possible?

Svi brought defensive effort. Marvin Bagley had 16/10 being guarded almost exclusively by Svi. Sure, they doubled, but the primary defender in that game was Svi. Svi could also feed the post and dribble the ball more than 3 times without throwing it off his knee.

Oh, my. Svi's entire history transformed based on his performance against Duke.

He was a terrible defender mocked endlessly here for his slow foot speed and reaction time. But he did have a good defensive game vs. Duke so he brought "defensive effort".

And I watched us lose at home to both Arizona State and Texas Tech last year, fueled by numerous runoits on turnovers where Svi simply lost the ball trying to turn the corner on drives to the rim. He had notoriously loose handles but again, his big shot vs. Duke suddenly has him remembered as some sort of good ball handler? Must be nice.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:36 amThen stop arguing.

Will do. If Vick comes back, I will cheer for him. If he doesn't I will cheer for the dudes that play instead. I hope he and his family are OK. On to the next game.

Very fair.