Kansas Crimson

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:15 am Has Zach put on any muscle in the off season? Dude could be a beast if he adds a little weight.

I'll say this. He was way more physical down low last year than I expected him to be coming in. Good rebounder and a decent defender.

Thought he was going to be solely a stretch 4 or 5. He can do that, but he can also play low and physical as needed, it seems.

I'll put Udeh at more than 5 mpg.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:58 am I'm trying to decide if Cam ever plays any meaningful minutes.

He feels like a mop up guy, except he may be some high-level shooter.

Zach's a good shooter too, and projected big minutes. So maybe if we're running some offensive scheme utilizing a lot of 5-out and/or pick-and-pops or something, maybe Cam gets a few reps, so the shooting keeps going while Zach rests.

but prob not.

I am hoping that Cam Martin is not needed at all. If he is good enough to earn more than mop up minutes then KU's big man rotation is even better than we thought.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:13 pm I'll put Udeh at more than 5 mpg.

Self's system is generally too complicated defensively for freshmen bigs to pick up and perform well unless they are elite. But hopefully Udeh is skilled enough and enough of a sponge as a learner to earn more than the token minutes we saw Clemence and Adams get last year. If he is, that's awesome.

I'd put him in the Carlton Bragg frosh year category, both top 25-30 kinda guys.
Around 8-9 MPG.

I still think the defensive adjustment under Self is harder for guards than bigs.

We just usually have seasoned bigs on the roster so Self doesn't have to play the younger bigs.

De Sousa is an example of how a frosh big can get minutes. My worry for Udeh, though, is that he won't be able to move his feet like De Sousa could. He looks like kind of a stiff in the highlight vids. He should get ballscreened to death.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:57 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:58 am I'm trying to decide if Cam ever plays any meaningful minutes.

He feels like a mop up guy, except he may be some high-level shooter.

Zach's a good shooter too, and projected big minutes. So maybe if we're running some offensive scheme utilizing a lot of 5-out and/or pick-and-pops or something, maybe Cam gets a few reps, so the shooting keeps going while Zach rests.

but prob not.

I am hoping that Cam Martin is not needed at all. If he is good enough to earn more than mop up minutes then KU's big man rotation is even better than we thought.

I am hoping that Cam Martin will be the guy that plays after the last TV timeout in blowouts early on and will hit a 1-2 3's and many from the AFH crowd + ousdahls of the message board world are screaming about how Cam needs 30+ MPG. And nothing more from Cam.

Same season as SDS, so also partially personnel related--Billy Preston was going to play major minutes. He was one of the most ready-to-play freshman bigs we've had in the last decade or so.

Cliff was coming into his own and then we know what happened. Diallo just never got a fair shake.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:06 pm I'd put him in the Carlton Bragg frosh year category, both top 25-30 kinda guys.
Around 8-9 MPG.

Maybe. The only forwards ahead of Bragg that year for big man minutes were Perry Ellis and Landen Lucas. It seems like there are a lot more guys than that ahead of Udeh right now.

But the guys returning ( Zach and KJ ) didn't have the minutes that both those guys ( Perry and Landen ) had the year previous. Not to mention the underutilized Diallo that season too.

Udeh is a total mystery. I could see him anywhere from 3 to 15 mpg.

I also think his minutes could be impacted significantly by how well Clemence plays the big role. But that only applies to this season, I think Clemence will transition into more of wing role next season.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:56 pm Udeh is a total mystery. I could see him anywhere from 3 to 15 mpg.

I also think his minutes could be impacted significantly by how well Clemence plays the big role. But that only applies to this season, I think Clemence will transition into more of wing role next season.

I think Udeh could depend on whether or not KJ and Wilson are considered in the big rotation with Udeh and Clemence or not. Which, that probably depends on how all 4 of those guys play this season. So, total mystery as of now.

I don't see Clemence ever playing the wing here, but I'd love to be surprised by his ability to move this season and beyond.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:11 pm

Cascadia wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:56 pm Udeh is a total mystery. I could see him anywhere from 3 to 15 mpg.

I also think his minutes could be impacted significantly by how well Clemence plays the big role. But that only applies to this season, I think Clemence will transition into more of wing role next season.

I think Udeh could depend on whether or not KJ and Wilson are considered in the big rotation with Udeh and Clemence or not. Which, that probably depends on how all 4 of those guys play this season. So, total mystery as of now.

I don't see Clemence ever playing the wing here, but I'd love to be surprised by his ability to move this season and beyond.

Some of this depends on how you define a wing. I firmly believe that KU essentially plays with 1 ball handler, 3 wings and 1 big. The wings have a wide range of skill sets and some are better at ball handling, shooting, passing, driving, etc but we generally play with 1 player with his back to the basket. So, just 1 big.

As an example, I'd categorize this years roster as:

Ball Handlers
Harris, Pettiford

Wings
Wilson, McCullar, Dick, Adams, Rice, Yesufu, Cuffe

Bigs
Clemence, Udeh, Ejiofor, Martin

With the obvious caveat that some players can (and do) play multiple positions.

I agree with all of that and the categorization.

Just don't think Clemence ever breaks into that wing group here because of the defensive end. Again, would love to be surprised. Right now I see his path to the NBA being getting stronger, b/c I think his slow feet will dictate him having to guard bigs, and then becoming a better passer. I think he's got a real shot if he does those things.

I agree that Clemence has a long way to go, and there’s no guarantee he successfully transitions to a wing, I just think that’s what he’s going to try to do.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:38 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:06 pm I'd put him in the Carlton Bragg frosh year category, both top 25-30 kinda guys.
Around 8-9 MPG.

Maybe. The only forwards ahead of Bragg that year for big man minutes were Perry Ellis and Landen Lucas.

It seems like there are a lot more guys than that ahead of Udeh right now.

It seems there were 2 for Bragg (perry and landen) and are 2 for Udeh (kj and clemence). LOL

Clemence is never gonna be a wing lol. but he is going to be a very good big who can shoot and do a lot of things. and that could pair well with another big wing, center, or versatile forward. and we have all those things on our roster

As an example, here’s a lineup I’d love to see in 2023-2024

Harris (or top PG recruit)
Rice
Adams
Clemence
Udeh

I don’t think that would work nor do I think Self would run that group out there often.

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:48 am I don’t think that would work

No clue why we'd play that lineup.