Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:20 pm And agree with twocoach.
He had an epic performance in the Duke game but for the most of his career, Svi was bad on defense.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:45 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:18 am What did svi bring to the table other than scoring?
Vicks rebounding numbers and assist numbers are better than Svis.
4 RPG isn't bad for a guard.

You're missing context again. Sure, 4 RPG for a guard might not be bad, but it's not good in a 4-guard lineup when you are the most athletic of the guards. His rebounding was better when they were playing 2 bigs as opposed to 4 guards. How is that possible?

Svi brought defensive effort. Marvin Bagley had 16/10 being guarded almost exclusively by Svi. Sure, they doubled, but the primary defender in that game was Svi. Svi could also feed the post and dribble the ball more than 3 times without throwing it off his knee.

Oh, my. Svi's entire history transformed based on his performance against Duke.

He was a terrible defender mocked endlessly here for his slow foot speed and reaction time. But he did have a good defensive game vs. Duke so he brought "defensive effort".

And I watched us lose at home to both Arizona State and Texas Tech last year, fueled by numerous runoits on turnovers where Svi simply lost the ball trying to turn the corner on drives to the rim. He had notoriously loose handles but again, his big shot vs. Duke suddenly has him remembered as some sort of good ball handler? Must be nice.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:34 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:45 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 am

You're missing context again. Sure, 4 RPG for a guard might not be bad, but it's not good in a 4-guard lineup when you are the most athletic of the guards. His rebounding was better when they were playing 2 bigs as opposed to 4 guards. How is that possible?

Svi brought defensive effort. Marvin Bagley had 16/10 being guarded almost exclusively by Svi. Sure, they doubled, but the primary defender in that game was Svi. Svi could also feed the post and dribble the ball more than 3 times without throwing it off his knee.

Oh, my. Svi's entire history transformed based on his performance against Duke.

He was a terrible defender mocked endlessly here for his slow foot speed and reaction time. But he did have a good defensive game vs. Duke so he brought "defensive effort".

And I watched us lose at home to both Arizona State and Texas Tech last year, fueled by numerous runoits on turnovers where Svi simply lost the ball trying to turn the corner on drives to the rim. He had notoriously loose handles but again, his big shot vs. Duke suddenly has him remembered as some sort of good ball handler? Must be nice.

That's why I was nice and said effort and not he brought defense. I know he was far from a lockdown defender, but you never questioned if he was fully invested into the game. The Duke game was just a perfect example of that. Dude busted his ass on the defensive side and didn't put up big offensive numbers. If Vick doesn't put up offensive numbers you might as well chalk his man up for 20 that night. Svi didn't let his shooting performance dictate the rest of his game.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:35 pm He certainly played poorly against KSU. But I rmemeber thinking he'd played well against TTU the game prior.

I also am hesitant to give Vick's absence all the credit for how we've played in the time he's been gone. I think a strong argument can be made that team chemistry, or overall pay has improved. But...we've also played two bigs, which I think helps out a ton, Dotson has played really well, and I think that's part of his own progression. Agbaji improves like something from a comic book character discovering his super powers. We've run things to get Lawson better looks. Most of us pay more attention to offense and that looks better without Garrett playing.

So...I think there are a lot of things at play for why we've looked better, and not all of them are directly due to Vick.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:37 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:35 pm He certainly played poorly against KSU. But I rmemeber thinking he'd played well against TTU the game prior.

I also am hesitant to give Vick's absence all the credit for how we've played in the time he's been gone. I think a strong argument can be made that team chemistry, or overall pay has improved. But...we've also played two bigs, which I think helps out a ton, Dotson has played really well, and I think that's part of his own progression. Agbaji improves like something from a comic book character discovering his super powers. We've run things to get Lawson better looks. Most of us pay more attention to offense and that looks better without Garrett playing.

So...I think there are a lot of things at play for why we've looked better, and not all of them are directly due to Vick.

Certainly all of that. But, Self sure does seem to be in a better mood.

Ball seems to move a lot better now. I also said before and still believe that Dotson should have been given the keys to the team a lot sooner before. That's also related to Vick.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:41 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:37 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:35 pm He certainly played poorly against KSU. But I rmemeber thinking he'd played well against TTU the game prior.

I also am hesitant to give Vick's absence all the credit for how we've played in the time he's been gone. I think a strong argument can be made that team chemistry, or overall pay has improved. But...we've also played two bigs, which I think helps out a ton, Dotson has played really well, and I think that's part of his own progression. Agbaji improves like something from a comic book character discovering his super powers. We've run things to get Lawson better looks. Most of us pay more attention to offense and that looks better without Garrett playing.

So...I think there are a lot of things at play for why we've looked better, and not all of them are directly due to Vick.

Certainly all of that. But, Self sure does seem to be in a better mood.

Ball seems to move a lot better now. I also said before and still believe that Dotson should have been given the keys to the team a lot sooner before. That's also related to Vick.

That seems like more of an issue between Self and Dotson than Vick.

If anything, Dotson being more ball dominant is probably contributed to Vick's production decline. Had Vick handled it better, the team might be in an even better spot...but I don't think that would stop people from getting pissed at Vick every time he only attempted 6 shots.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:30 pm

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:34 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:45 am
Oh, my. Svi's entire history transformed based on his performance against Duke.

He was a terrible defender mocked endlessly here for his slow foot speed and reaction time. But he did have a good defensive game vs. Duke so he brought "defensive effort".

And I watched us lose at home to both Arizona State and Texas Tech last year, fueled by numerous runoits on turnovers where Svi simply lost the ball trying to turn the corner on drives to the rim. He had notoriously loose handles but again, his big shot vs. Duke suddenly has him remembered as some sort of good ball handler? Must be nice.

That's why I was nice and said effort and not he brought defense. I know he was far from a lockdown defender, but you never questioned if he was fully invested into the game. The Duke game was just a perfect example of that. Dude busted his ass on the defensive side and didn't put up big offensive numbers. If Vick doesn't put up offensive numbers you might as well chalk his man up for 20 that night. Svi didn't let his shooting performance dictate the rest of his game.

It's certainly true that some games will elevate a player into the legendary.

But, in general, it makes no sense that Svi has become a whipping boy in a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with him. It's quite weird.