Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:22 pm I wouldn't say "real racism is quite rare" - ( quite rare for me implies it's not happening in your community on a daily basis but it is ) - but HD is correct that today it gets quickly used as a counter-point to refute an argument.

phd wrote:Right that is a huge problem. And I think that Lobster is correct that if you're actively seeking out racism, you'll find lots of examples of it, and some may not actually have anything to do with racism.

But what you can also do, and I think Lobster has done repeatedly, is turn a blind eye toward racism, and come up with excuses to make it go away or pretend it doesn't exist. And that's just as dangerous, if not more so.

Walrus wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:17 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:02 pm We are all casual racists. We think otherwise, but then are schooled periodically on instances of careless phrases or thoughts. The best of us resolve to do better. The worst argue the point.

Nah, I think we all have some prejudices and we all stereotype people, but that's not racism. Racism is when one actually believes their race is superior to another race. Very few people actually believe that. It's far more common to make superficial judgements against others, but real racism is quite rare.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:26 pm I guess an allegation of racism can be used as some counter point to refute an argument.

But it can also be used as some cop out to avoid addressing the issue at hand.

If someone says something that could be racist, and someone else calls them out as racist, it doesn’t negate the issue of racism to just reply with, “StOp CaLLiNg Me RaCiSt!”

One has to objectively stop and think about the circumstances either way, but that takes a humility that many don’t possess.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:37 pm For sure.
The protests aren't random.

Certainly there are a number of people at the protests who a. are using it as a means to commit crime b. using it as a means just to be angry at the government without clear reasoning and c. people who want to get social media praise/props but at it's heart, it's about police treating black people differently, and there's enough evidence to support that ( and I think a lot of black people all have their own stories with this mistreatment ), and the republican president is doing nothing to deal with it beyond creating more divide.

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:38 pm Let me ask you a serious honest question.
If I am a Republican or a Democrat and I don't like you and I feel I am smarter than you simply because you are not someone who supports the same party as me - is that racism?

There is no right or wrong answer that I am looking for from you - or anyone else. I'm just interested to know your - or anyone else's opinion.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:40 pm I think there's a few posters here who won't admit it outright but do think that one race is superior to the other - maybe not physiologically ( possibly ) but culturally/socially.

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:39 pm
"You're racist!"
"Why?"
"If you don't know already, that just proves that you're racist!"

It solves nothing and just adds to the juvenile antagonism.

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:37 pm For sure.
The protests aren't random.

Certainly there are a number of people at the protests who a. are using it as a means to commit crime b. using it as a means just to be angry at the government without clear reasoning and c. people who want to get social media praise/props but at it's heart, it's about police treating black people differently, and there's enough evidence to support that ( and I think a lot of black people all have their own stories with this mistreatment ), and the republican president is doing nothing to deal with it beyond creating more divide.

At its heart, the conservative movement is about maximizing individual freedom and opportunity, but some people choose to focus on a small group of knuckleheads and overgrown adolescents who ruin it for everyone else by waving Confederate flags, brandishing firearms for no apparent reason, and generally being idiots. They don't represent the majority of Conservatives, yet they are made the face of the movement because it is easy and convenient and it advances the narrative.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:40 pm I think there's a few posters here who won't admit it outright but do think that one race is superior to the other - maybe not physiologically ( possibly ) but culturally/socially.

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm I find it interesting that we are expected to focus on the "heart" of the rioting and destruction and affirm it, but no one is willing to do that for the other side of the aisle. Seems like the issue is the same.

Walrus wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:44 pm

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:38 pm Let me ask you a serious honest question.
If I am a Republican or a Democrat and I don't like you and I feel I am smarter than you simply because you are not someone who supports the same party as me - is that racism?

There is no right or wrong answer that I am looking for from you - or anyone else. I'm just interested to know your - or anyone else's opinion.

If someone believes they are smarter than someone else just because of their political affiliation, I don't believe that makes them a racist, but it makes them a fool (in my opinion). I'm not affiliated with either side because I see the hypocrisy of both parties.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:50 pm

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:37 pm For sure.
The protests aren't random.

Certainly there are a number of people at the protests who a. are using it as a means to commit crime b. using it as a means just to be angry at the government without clear reasoning and c. people who want to get social media praise/props but at it's heart, it's about police treating black people differently, and there's enough evidence to support that ( and I think a lot of black people all have their own stories with this mistreatment ), and the republican president is doing nothing to deal with it beyond creating more divide.

At its heart, the conservative movement is about maximizing individual freedom and opportunity, but some people choose to focus on a small group of knuckleheads and overgrown adolescents who ruin it for everyone else by waving Confederate flags, brandishing firearms for no apparent reason, and generally being idiots. They don't represent the majority of Conservatives, yet they are made the face of the movement because it is easy and convenient and it advances the narrative.

I agree with the paragraph, but would add that the Conservatives have had ample opportunity to condemn those knuckleheads and have not only not done a good job of distancing themselves from them, but I think an argument can be made that they've embraced them in the Trump era. And that's where they lost me completely.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:51 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:40 pm I think there's a few posters here who won't admit it outright but do think that one race is superior to the other - maybe not physiologically ( possibly ) but culturally/socially.

I’ll once again shamelessly go on record as saying I totally am racist - against white people.

just season yall’s food already!

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:46 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:40 pm I think there's a few posters here who won't admit it outright but do think that one race is superior to the other - maybe not physiologically ( possibly ) but culturally/socially.

That's a very broad statement. What evidence - statements, actions, etc. - can you provide to back that up?

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:58 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:50 pm

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

At its heart, the conservative movement is about maximizing individual freedom and opportunity, but some people choose to focus on a small group of knuckleheads and overgrown adolescents who ruin it for everyone else by waving Confederate flags, brandishing firearms for no apparent reason, and generally being idiots. They don't represent the majority of Conservatives, yet they are made the face of the movement because it is easy and convenient and it advances the narrative.

I agree with the paragraph, but would add that the Conservatives have had ample opportunity to condemn those knuckleheads and have not only not done a good job of distancing themselves from them, but I think an argument can be made that they've embraced them in the Trump era. And that's where they lost me completely.

I think that condemnation is a strategy favored by the Liberal side more than the Conservative. We tend to try to engage the knuckleheads in dialogue and influence them to move in a more productive direction. That takes more time and is less overt than condemnation, but I would argue that it accomplishes more in the long run.

People who supported DJT exist on a pretty broad spectrum ranging all the way from overt racists at one extreme to people who felt like they had no option at the other. In the middle are the vast majority, who wanted some of the reasonable things he talked about that Dowdy poo-poo-ed such as controlling our borders, rectifying the international trade imbalance, and improving economic outlook for the middle class.