Kansas Crimson

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:19 pm I thought Pettiford looked good early when healthy. I mean, he looked very much like a freshman, but you saw glimpses of a really good player.

Very Frank Mason-like as a freshman. Not afraid to go to the paint, good handles, kind of a bulldog attitude.

That's my point though. Bobby isn't going anywhere anytime soon, as far as professionally, and history shows that good teams almost always have upperclassman that fall in that "barely Top 100 recruit" category.

I would guess there's more in the 20's than 90's, but I'll counter that. Would it be fair to call the Top 25 your "lottery picks", 25-50 your "late 1st/early 2nd", then 50-150 your "late 2nd/undrafted"? Of course it would be ideal to have a team full of lottery picks, but you also need those good 2nd rounders to round out the roster if you want to be successful.

I think on any given ranking system 1-25 are further apart than 26-100. It's easier to spot the elite players, while it's harder to rank guys when the skillsets become more similar. Just like when people love to say "I told you he wasn't ready" when a guy leaves early to be an NBA team's 8th man. Not everyone can be the superstar, but that doesn't mean they aren't still going to be very good.

I don't know what you are trying to argue. I am happy with what we've seen out of Bobby thus far and think, injury time excepted, he lived up to what I expected out of him as a freshman.

If he were a Top 25 guy, I would be mildly disappointed. Even top 50.

It was more of a rhetorical question to the point I highlighted in your previous post that I quoted. That people will look at rankings and see a player down there, then just assumed he's awful and shouldn't be playing. Just like people tend to think the incoming freshman is always better than the upperclassman who is ahead of him.

I didn't mean to imply you were saying that about Bobby, if that's how you took it. Your statement just trigged an opinion I had, so I quoted it, lol. Not that I was disagreeing with your take.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:42 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:39 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:36 am Even with Gradey Dick, I don't know how you can throw Harris and Yesufu out there for big minutes if they are who they look like right now.

Maybe Cuffe can fill the void? I don't know what to think of him yet.

You go back to the portal. Maybe not this offseason as I am not going to give up yet on Yesufu, but certainly if Yesufu doesn't work out during next season. And, if I am Joe, I am thinking I am way too talented to just be a rotation player at KU--Charlie Moore probably felt the same way.

Cuffe also seems like an off-guard and he has a ton of time to get things figured out.

Is Joe really "too talented to be a rotation player at KU"? He's never been a starter for a full season in his 3 years in college.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:57 am Dajuan is a curiosity cuz it's like Self realizes his low ceiling, but still wants to balance that with his urge to play Dajuan 39 minutes a night for the next 3 years.

This post is bullshit fyi.

Dajuan averages 29.3min this season.

Players with "low ceilings" don't start 35 of 36 games for a 1 seed and average 5pts 4asts 1stl per game.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:15 pm Perhaps Harris spends the summer getting shots up and is an actual threat that needs to be guarded.

Harris shoots 47% from 2pt and 31% from 3pt this season.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:08 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:42 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:39 am

Maybe Cuffe can fill the void? I don't know what to think of him yet.

You go back to the portal. Maybe not this offseason as I am not going to give up yet on Yesufu, but certainly if Yesufu doesn't work out during next season. And, if I am Joe, I am thinking I am way too talented to just be a rotation player at KU--Charlie Moore probably felt the same way.

Cuffe also seems like an off-guard and he has a ton of time to get things figured out.

Is Joe really "too talented to be a rotation player at KU"? He's never been a starter for a full season in his 3 years in college.

Like with Charlie, only time will tell.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:16 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:57 am Dajuan is a curiosity cuz it's like Self realizes his low ceiling, but still wants to balance that with his urge to play Dajuan 39 minutes a night for the next 3 years.

This post is bullshit fyi.

Dajuan averages 29.3min this season.

Players with "low ceilings" don't start 35 of 36 games for a 1 seed and average 5pts 4asts 1stl per game.

What?! That is like the definition of a low ceiling for a KU player. 5pts, 4ast, 1st in 30 minutes a game? And I don't think anyone can say Dajuan has played poorly--he's played about as well as he can.

If your ceiling is just starting for KU, then it's a very low ceiling for KU. Among our last 4 PG's we have had an NPOY award, a consensus first team AA selection, a consensus second team AA selection, and a national defensive player of the year award.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:53 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:16 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:57 am Dajuan is a curiosity cuz it's like Self realizes his low ceiling, but still wants to balance that with his urge to play Dajuan 39 minutes a night for the next 3 years.

This post is bullshit fyi.

Dajuan averages 29.3min this season.

Players with "low ceilings" don't start 35 of 36 games for a 1 seed and average 5pts 4asts 1stl per game.

What?! That is like the definition of a low ceiling for a KU player. 5pts, 4ast, 1st in 30 minutes a game? And I don't think anyone can say Dajuan has played poorly--he's played about as well as he can.

If your ceiling is just starting for KU, then it's a very low ceiling for KU. Among our last 4 PG's we have had an NPOY award, a consensus first team AA selection, a consensus second team AA selection, and a national defensive player of the year award.

How many players have averaged 4 assists per game during the Self era? 5 or 6?

DH would be a star at Miami too.

Aaron Miles x2.
Vonte x2.
Frank x2.
Sherron x2.
Tharpe.
TyTy x2.
Elijah.
Garrett.
RussRob x2.
Chalmers.
Dotson.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:00 pmDH would be a star at Miami too.

Charlie Moore has made 58 3 pointers so far this season.

DaJuan has made 26 in 2 seasons.

The assist numbers are virtually the same.

Charlie Moore was named honorable mention all ACC, which is also a low ceiling for a player at KU's level. Not only is Moore unquestionably better, his own ceiling isn't even a star.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:17 pm Aaron Miles x2.
Vonte x2.
Frank x2.
Sherron x2.
Tharpe.
TyTy x2.
Elijah.
Garrett.
RussRob x2.
Chalmers.
Dotson.

Every single one.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:22 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:17 pm Aaron Miles x2.
Vonte x2.
Frank x2.
Sherron x2.
Tharpe.
TyTy x2.
Elijah.
Garrett.
RussRob x2.
Chalmers.
Dotson.

Every single one.

Yes.
And almost every single season.
Except 2 seasons.

Can you name the seasons and the player with the highest APG for those two seasons?

And fwiw MG didn't get NPDOY as a PG. He did it as a small ball 4 iirc.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:21 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:00 pmDH would be a star at Miami too.

Charlie Moore has made 58 3 pointers so far this season.

DaJuan has made 26 in 2 seasons.

The assist numbers are virtually the same.

Charlie Moore was named honorable mention all ACC, which is also a low ceiling for a player at KU's level. Not only is Moore unquestionably better, his own ceiling isn't even a star.

Charlie Moore couldn't cut it at KU. It's easier to put up individual numbers on a Miami than it as at KU where he could barely crack the rotation.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:17 pm Aaron Miles x2.
Vonte x2.
Frank x2.
Sherron x2.
Tharpe.
TyTy x2.
Elijah.
Garrett.
RussRob x2.
Chalmers.
Dotson.

More than I expected.

Sounds like DH is in pretty good company. Looks like most of those guys had 4ast in a season or 2. DH might do it in 3 seasons when it's all said and done.

Could he end up top 20 all time in assists at KU? Maybe.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:04 pm And fwiw MG didn't get NPDOY as a PG. He did it as a small ball 4 iirc.

Certainly am aware what year it was and phrased my post accordingly. He did it as the best perimeter defender in college basketball.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:07 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:21 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:00 pmDH would be a star at Miami too.

Charlie Moore has made 58 3 pointers so far this season.

DaJuan has made 26 in 2 seasons.

The assist numbers are virtually the same.

Charlie Moore was named honorable mention all ACC, which is also a low ceiling for a player at KU's level. Not only is Moore unquestionably better, his own ceiling isn't even a star.

Charlie Moore couldn't cut it at KU. It's easier to put up individual numbers on a Miami than it as at KU where he could barely crack the rotation.

The change of climate would not magically turn Dajuan into a shooter. You just can't be a star guard anymore if you can't shoot. Bad shooting significantly lowers a PG's ceiling.

A players "ceiling" is entirely subjective. At this point, at similar ages, DH is better than Yesufu at team basketball. That's just a fact. This fantasy hypothetical ceiling stuff is fun for messageboard talk though.