Kansas Crimson

Playing Clemence and Adams 12 minutes in a close conference road game is going away from Mitch. Jalen also saw run at the 5 in both games.

Jalen did see run at the 5 against George Mason (and we looked good), but generally those are things that you wouldn't have expected to see given the couple of weeks prior to conference play when all the attention was on Mitch taking Dave's minutes.

In honor of Roy coming to AFH tonight.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:23 am Playing Clemence and Adams 12 minutes in a close conference road game is going away from Mitch. Jalen also saw run at the 5 in both games.

Jalen did see run at the 5 against George Mason (and we looked good), but generally those are things that you wouldn't have expected to see given the couple of weeks prior to conference play when all the attention was on Mitch taking Dave's minutes.

4min of Jalen at the 5 against TT and the last 2 were desperation minutes where we played no bigs.

Jalen is awful at the 5. We give up way too much inside. He's a wing.

KJ and Clemence average about 10min combined this season. So it wasn't totally out of whack. Just was in a closer game than usual.

KU -12

ISU is a fraud.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:35 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:23 am Playing Clemence and Adams 12 minutes in a close conference road game is going away from Mitch. Jalen also saw run at the 5 in both games.

Jalen did see run at the 5 against George Mason (and we looked good), but generally those are things that you wouldn't have expected to see given the couple of weeks prior to conference play when all the attention was on Mitch taking Dave's minutes.

4min of Jalen at the 5 against TT and the last 2 were desperation minutes where we played no bigs.

Jalen is awful at the 5. We give up way too much inside. He's a wing.

Mitch is awful at the 5. We give up way too much inside. He’s a 1990’s 4.

Yeah, the only reason wings are getting desperation minutes at the 5 is cuz of how bad our veteran bigs are in the first place

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:54 am Yeah, the only reason wings are getting desperation minutes at the 5 is cuz of how bad our veteran bigs are in the first place

In 2022, I'd prefer rolling with a big wing with borderline NBA talent for backup 5 minutes over a guy that is suited for a 1990's PF position that doesn't exist and has Division II talent. Especially when they are essentially the same size. That's the direction most coaches are going for several years now.

Think of it this way: even if a wing is bad at the 5 it still gets your team the benefit of doing wing things out there.

If your 5 is bad at the 5 then all you’ve got out there is a bad 5.

We're in some way picking the lesser of two evils. Ideally, Dave gives us pretty close to 30. If we had a Tarik Black here, then the answer would be pretty obvious.

In the days of perimeter oriented basketball/bigs, go with some combination of Wilson, freshmen, and sure, then Mitch. It doesn't make much sense to me to just let superior talent waste away on the bench when we know what Mitch brings and know that it's not good enough. And it's Bill's job to get them ready--don't look back on the season and wish you tried something different from the past 5 seasons.

To Bill's credit, we did go with Clemence, Adams, and even Jalen instead of Mitch in what will be about the toughest environment we will see all season.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:14 am We're in some way picking the lesser of two evils. Ideally, Dave gives us pretty close to 30. If we had a Tarik Black here, then the answer would be pretty obvious.

Obvious in the sense he’d have 2 fouls by the first media timeout?

And another factor in the equation:

It may be easier to justify playing a wing at the 5 when said wing is also your best rebounder.

Yeah, defensive rebounding is a huge part of the equation and Mitch isn't even in the same stratosphere as Jalen there.

Size also matters. Those two factors are why, for instance, we wouldn't want Svi at the 5 despite his height. And then CB might be the second best defensive rebounder on the team, pound for pound, but was well overmatched at the 5 last season. Jalen held things down last season at the 5 during COVID times, so not sure why it seems like such a novel idea this season.

Counter that with said wing is so bad at protecting the rim that they allow 50 points in the paint. Can't justify playing your best rebounder out of position, for his rebounding, when there aren't any rebounds to grab.

i’m trying to remember JW’s limited minutes at the 5

how was he defending? i don’t seem to recall any fronting of his man, which would seem almost a necessity in that situation (so long as there is reliable back-side help)

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:28 am Counter that with said wing is so bad at protecting the rim that they allow 50 points in the paint. Can't justify playing your best rebounder out of position, for his rebounding, when there aren't any rebounds to grab.

Counter that counter with neither non-wing actual listed “big” is particularly good at protecting the rim either.

The occasional weak side block is nice, but let’s not pretend Mitch is Jeff Withey.

And Dave is the best at playing strong against a similarly strong legit D1 sized big, but that’s also while crossing fingers and knocking on wood and hoping Dave doesn’t wake up and see his own shadow that day or whatever

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:28 am Counter that with said wing is so bad at protecting the rim that they allow 50 points in the paint. Can't justify playing your best rebounder out of position, for his rebounding, when there aren't any rebounds to grab.

This is a decent point, but Mitch is far from a rim protector as a 5 man. His weakside shot blocks just end up in the other team's hands for a lay in. These aren't great options and are way less preferable to Dave giving us good Dave.

I think you make up for that during Jalen's minutes at the 5 by pushing tempo and getting a lot of offensive possessions, especially in transition where no one in the country can match us.

Yea.

Not many teams have a guy who can not only work the glass, but start the fast break too.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:45 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:28 am Counter that with said wing is so bad at protecting the rim that they allow 50 points in the paint. Can't justify playing your best rebounder out of position, for his rebounding, when there aren't any rebounds to grab.

This is a decent point, but Mitch is far from a rim protector as a 5 man. His weakside shot blocks just end up in the other team's hands for a lay in. These aren't great options and are way less preferable to Dave giving us good Dave.

I think you make up for that during Jalen's minutes at the 5 by pushing tempo and getting a lot of offensive possessions, especially in transition where no one in the country can match us.

I think that only works when Jalen is making shots though. Which he has only done one time all year. If none of your options are particularly good at protecting the rim, give me the guy who will at least be able to fight an opposing team's 5 from just walking down the court, to whatever point in the paint, he wants to be and setting up shop. At least for the majority of the game.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:53 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:45 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:28 am Counter that with said wing is so bad at protecting the rim that they allow 50 points in the paint. Can't justify playing your best rebounder out of position, for his rebounding, when there aren't any rebounds to grab.

This is a decent point, but Mitch is far from a rim protector as a 5 man. His weakside shot blocks just end up in the other team's hands for a lay in. These aren't great options and are way less preferable to Dave giving us good Dave.

I think you make up for that during Jalen's minutes at the 5 by pushing tempo and getting a lot of offensive possessions, especially in transition where no one in the country can match us.

I think that only works when Jalen is making shots though. Which he has only done one time all year. If none of your options are particularly good at protecting the rim, give me the guy who will at least be able to fight an opposing team's 5 from just walking down the court, to whatever point in the paint, he wants to be and setting up shop. At least for the majority of the game.

Majority of the game should be Dave. If the other team has some big monster at the 5, I don't think putting Jalen on him does us favors, sure. Heck, Mitch probably isn't either. That brings us to Adams who is maybe even stronger than Dave . . .