Kansas Crimson

Feel free to ignore me bro.

I guess if I really am expected to declare what I want, it’s for the world as a whole to rethink economies, and distribution of wealth, and the whole system; to one that emphasizes conservation over consumption, sustainability over short-term, and people over profits.

I don’t know why that’s so controversial, yet here we are.

But hey, enjoy jacking it, tdub!

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:36 pm And ftr Ousdahl i engage you genuinely and honestly in almost all of our discussions. I hope you know that. I think you're a good dude, i just disagree on some topics and how the world works/should work.

Thanks bro.

That’s why I hope we really do get to meet up and blaze some day.

Now whaddya say we go out to the country club parking lot and hot box your Datsun?!

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:52 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:36 pm And ftr Ousdahl i engage you genuinely and honestly in almost all of our discussions. I hope you know that. I think you're a good dude, i just disagree on some topics and how the world works/should work.

Thanks bro.

That’s why I hope we really do get to meet up and blaze some day.

Now whaddya say we go out to the country club parking lot and hot box your Datsun?!

I can't afford either of the 2 country clubs in my town...so i am a yearly member at one of the courses open to the public....much better vibes there anyway. And yearly dues are about the same as 1 month would cost at the private courses.

Bro then you’ve got no skin in the game. Time to move somewhere with country clubs you can afford.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:50 pm Feel free to ignore me bro.

I guess if I really am expected to declare what I want, it’s for the world as a whole to rethink economies, and distribution of wealth, and the whole system; to one that emphasizes conservation over consumption, sustainability over short-term, and people over profits.

I don’t know why that’s so controversial, yet here we are.

But hey, enjoy jacking it, tdub!

I don't think it's controversial to want those things.

I do think it is sort of unrealistic to expect all of those things can be attained. Conservation over consumption isn't realistic human behavior in many instances. But when it comes to the environment it should be non negotiable. That is all of ours to share. Nobody owns that.

I don't agree we should steal from the rich to give to the poor....but we definitely agree the system needs to be more equitable for all parties, and if it is going to slightly skew 1 way then i agree it should be to those more in need...right now it sure feels like the game sets up better for the rich. That's inevitable in some instances. But we need to make some tweeks to our tax code so that everyone pays their fair share.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:56 pm Bro then you’ve got no skin in the game. Time to move somewhere with country clubs you can afford.

Country Clubs aren't meant to be affordable I suppose. They're not for everyone unfortunately. Otherwise they'd be public.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:50 pm Feel free to ignore me bro.

I guess if I really am expected to declare what I want, it’s for the world as a whole to rethink economies, and distribution of wealth, and the whole system; to one that emphasizes conservation over consumption, sustainability over short-term, and people over profits.

I don’t know why that’s so controversial, yet here we are.

But hey, enjoy jacking it, tdub!

It's not controversial, just unrealistic. The world isn't a whole so expecting it to behave in one coordinated manner is pointless.

The only reason it’s unrealistic to expect is if we collectively choose to resign ourselves to that attitude. (And heads up! That’s exactly what the moneyed elites want you to do!)

I think economic equality would receive overwhelming popular support, and solve a lot of other societal issues along the way, but somehow it’s on hardly anyone’s minds. Instead, we’re usually consumed by some other outrage du jour.

Here’s one decidedly socialist take that’s prob still too radical for most: it’s not a matter of stealing from the rich to give to the poor, so much as it is the rich stealing from the poor all along. Capitalism can just as easily be viewed as the economics of exploitation.

Let’s face it, rich people become rich through one of two ways:

1. Winning the genetic lottery (either through inheritance, or also maybe by being some elite creative or athletic talent)

2. Shameless exploitation of the working class (Bezos and co say hi)

Or rather, if there is such thing as a self-made billionaire - someone who got that rich as a one-man operation, with absolutely no help from partners or employees or public infrastructure and assistance, please do share the examples.

If only the Amazon worker strikes got as much press as Jeff’s cute little cock rocket tour. But what media’s gonna pick that story up? The Washington Post?

But for real, if I may ask those of you who feel it’s unrealistic - so how do we make it realistic? How do we get more working class types to care about their own economic livelihood, and the world’s whole future, as much as they care about guns and abortion and such?

When you say economic equality what do you mean? We all have equal everything?

No. I didn’t mean to suggest that. Doctors and lawyers and bidness execs will still make more money than fry cooks, don’t worry.

Let’s instead call it, mitigate economic inequality.

Give all stakeholders more say, rather than just shareholders.

And view it all through a lens of providing for humanity, rather than treat humanity like just some economic cog; and of conserving life on this earth, rather than use up this earth to the last drop and hope you get invited on one of the billionaire bugout space colony whatevers

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:20 pm No. I didn’t mean to suggest that. Doctors and lawyers and bidness execs will still make more money than fry cooks, don’t worry.

Let’s instead call it, mitigate economic inequality.

Give all stakeholders more say, rather than just shareholders.

And view it all through a lens of providing for humanity, rather than treat humanity like just some economic cog; and of conserving life on this earth, rather than use up this earth to the last drop and hope you get invited on one of the billionaire bugout space colony whatevers

So you only want people to work for huge corporations and not for small businesses.

Why work at the local hardware store when Lowe's is giving me stock options?

Huh?

I think you’re telling me how I think again.

But yeah, the whole small vs big bidness is a whole can of worms in itself.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:25 pm Huh?

I think you’re telling me how I think again.

But yeah, the whole small vs big bidness is a whole can of worms in itself.

I think you just say things that you think sound good and never think them through.

OK.

Please show me where I said I only want people to work for huge corporations and not small bidness.

If you’d really like to discuss, I’d be pleased. It seems a lot of trade-offs, depending…sometimes mega huge has its advantages. Sometimes small local does.

As a whole I think we’d prob benefit from focusing more on smaller scale, local and regional, etc. but again, sometimes being big helps out the operation.

It’s a big can of worms, and one I wasn’t really planning on opening, until you brought it up

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:20 pm No. I didn’t mean to suggest that. Doctors and lawyers and bidness execs will still make more money than fry cooks, don’t worry.

Let’s instead call it, mitigate economic inequality.

Give all stakeholders more say, rather than just shareholders.

Why do you feel like stakeholders don't have enough say?

Do you think they deserve more say than shareholders? I don't. They have much less at stake.

It's one thing to want fair say and fair pay. That's something that should be realistically attainable. But it's an entirely different thing to want "more" just because you're envious/jealous that they have more than you.

Thinking all rich people exploit the working class is something i disagree with. Especially depending on where you draw the line for where "rich" starts.

Someone inheriting wealth isn't intrinsically evil. Being wealthy isn't intrinsically evil.

There is a difference between something truly being unfair and just being pissed off that others have more of something than you.

This seems like a common sort of gaslighting in this convo: “but they’re not the greedy ones, you’re the greedy one!” for calling for less inequality. As if calling for less equality is the same as wanting free shit handed to you or something. It seems like classic capitalist propaganda.

Bear in mind, we all grew up conditioned to this propaganda, and it is far more widespread and nuanced than simply “commies iz bayad”

Bidness decisions are made overwhelmingly based on what benefits the shareholders, and the shareholders alone. And the shareholders mostly just care about their own money, often in a shortsighted way.

Stakeholders would include all the employees, contractors, families communities, the environment, all it. and would consider more than just how the money is affected

Now please tell me more about how I’m the greedy one.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:25 pm Huh?

I think you’re telling me how I think again.

But yeah, the whole small vs big bidness is a whole can of worms in itself.

Most Mom & Pop shops don't make enough to just "give every stakeholder more" so forcing big companies to do so would just drive employees away from those small shops even more than is already the case.

sounds like quite the can of worms

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:48 pm This seems like a common sort of gaslighting in this convo: “but they’re not the greedy ones, you’re the greedy one!” for calling for less inequality. As if calling for less equality is the same as wanting free shit handed to you or something. It seems like classic capitalist propaganda.

Bear in mind, we all grew up conditioned to this propaganda, and it is far more widespread and nuanced than simply “commies iz bayad”

Bidness decisions are made overwhelmingly based on what benefits the shareholders, and the shareholders alone. And the shareholders mostly just care about their own money, often in a shortsighted way.

Stakeholders would include all the employees, contractors, families communities, the environment, all it. and would consider more than just how the money is affected

Now please tell me more about how I’m the greedy one.

I would love to hear more about shareholder meetings and stakeholder meetings, you sound like you have a lot of experience with these things.

Do you wear a cup while posting?

I only ask because sometimes I think to myself, go ahead, kick him right there when I read your posts.

In the meantime someone is actually doing some shit in Denver it seems. My life seems almost as charmed as gutter's lately. I just met Joe Dooling last week and he is coming out to do some work in the Empire. I will have to ask him about the cost per square meter they quote. That sounds impossible.

https://www.designboom.com/architecture ... 8-17-2021/

I like this project as well. I had a couple of long conversation with Edwin Chan about these, our connection goes back to his time at Frank Gehry Associates. He hates this project for some reason. I think he was tired of talking about quonset huts. But they built these for around $75/sf.

http://www.princeconcepts.com/true-north-detroit

Next time you are in the vicinity of the Frontier stop and check out their quonsets, they are pretty damn nice I think. Instead of plywood, they paneled the interior with 1X beetle kill pine from the local mill.

When we had a place in Pagosa Springs 13 years ago there was a housing development up on a hill in town. It looked like a pretty tough piece of shale outcropping to conquer, but a local group of hippies got together and bought this piece of rock and chiseled it down and then they subdivided and all built houses up there. They are small and plain looking but they were affordable, because they formed their own small, one purposeful project development group and developed housing for themselves.

It can be done.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:48 pm Bidness decisions are made overwhelmingly based on what benefits the shareholders, and the shareholders alone. And the shareholders mostly just care about their own money, often in a shortsighted way.

Stakeholders would include all the employees, contractors, families communities, the environment, all it. and would consider more than just how the money is affected

Every company I have worked for or with considers almost all of those things you mentioned while making business decisions. Every single one.

In the United States there are 30,200,000 small businesses. SMALL businesses comprise 99.9% of ALL United States businesses.