Kansas Crimson

Ftr DH shoots a higher % from 3pt this season than Yesufu.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:05 pm A players "ceiling" is entirely subjective. At this point, at similar ages, DH is better than Yesufu at team basketball. That's just a fact.

These 3 sentences right in a row are a lot of fun.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:16 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:05 pm A players "ceiling" is entirely subjective. At this point, at similar ages, DH is better than Yesufu at team basketball. That's just a fact.

These 3 sentences right in a row are a lot of fun.

Fun is good!

I think it's very hard to evaluate a players "ceiling" without watching practices. It's a projection.

I think it's much easier to watch a game and determine who is better at team basketball. That would be DH and that is why our HOF coach plays him over Yesufu.

Harris actually has gotten better at attacking the rim and finishing over the season. His shot is awful looking and he only has the three point percentage he does because of the endless open ones the opponent gives him and his opportunity to drive to the rim is often because players won't commit off doubling Dave or shadowing Ochai.

Hes still gotten better though.

Most teams have done that, cheating off Harris all season. Creighton employed it even when Remy was in.

That didnt work.

We will see what Providence does.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:59 am Most teams have done that, cheating off Harris all season. Creighton employed it even when Remy was in.

That didnt work.

We will see what Providence does.

Maybe wear Gatorade shorts?




I'm hoping to be sitting next to the KU bench but if I am next to the Providence bench - instead of taking pics of Mitch's butt I'll take some pics of Ed's head. The one on top of his neck and shoulders.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:28 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:15 pm Perhaps Harris spends the summer getting shots up and is an actual threat that needs to be guarded.

Harris shoots 47% from 2pt and 31% from 3pt this season.

Just 31% despite being left wide open at almost all times. If Agbaji got that many open looks he would shoot over 50%.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:00 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:53 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:16 pm

This post is bullshit fyi.

Dajuan averages 29.3min this season.

Players with "low ceilings" don't start 35 of 36 games for a 1 seed and average 5pts 4asts 1stl per game.

What?! That is like the definition of a low ceiling for a KU player. 5pts, 4ast, 1st in 30 minutes a game? And I don't think anyone can say Dajuan has played poorly--he's played about as well as he can.

If your ceiling is just starting for KU, then it's a very low ceiling for KU. Among our last 4 PG's we have had an NPOY award, a consensus first team AA selection, a consensus second team AA selection, and a national defensive player of the year award.

How many players have averaged 4 assists per game during the Self era? 5 or 6?

DH would be a star at Miami too.

Twelve actually. It has happened in every season that Self has been at Kansas but three so it is basically the floor for any KU PG, not an accomplishment.

Aaron Miles 03-04 & 04-05
Russell Robinson 05-06 & 06-07 & 07-08
Mario Chalmers 07-08
Sherron Collins 08-09 & 09-10
Tyshawn Taylor 10-11 & 11-12
Elijah Johnson 12-13
Naadir Tharpe 13-14
14-15 Frank Mason fell short, averaging 3.9apg
Frank Mason 15-16 & 17-18
Devonte Graham 17-18
18-19 Devon Dotson fell short at 3.5apg
Devon Dotson 19-20
Marcus Garrett 19-20
20-21 Marcus Garrett fell short at 3.7
21-22 Dajuan Harris

Sorry, but Harris has been by far the worst starting PG of the Bill Self era.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:27 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:22 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:17 pm Aaron Miles x2.
Vonte x2.
Frank x2.
Sherron x2.
Tharpe.
TyTy x2.
Elijah.
Garrett.
RussRob x2.
Chalmers.
Dotson.

Every single one.

Yes.
And almost every single season.
Except 2 seasons.

Can you name the seasons and the player with the highest APG for those two seasons?

I think this is wrong. But I want to say Devon.

I remember some stat about this, but the more I think about it I think it was a combo stat. Like only guard to avg 20 and 5.....not necessarily a stand alone assist stat.

Not sure what is being asked, but I believe the highest APG guys we've had are Miles and Graham. If Miles has the two highest APG seasons, that would not shock me.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:41 pmI think it's very hard to evaluate a players "ceiling" without watching practices. It's a projection.

I didn't watch a single full practice of Embiid's or Tarik's and I felt pretty good about Embiid having the higher ceiling.

Same goes for players like Cheick Diallo vs. Jamari Traylor.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:03 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:41 pmI think it's very hard to evaluate a players "ceiling" without watching practices. It's a projection.

I didn't watch a single full practice of Embiid's or Tarik's and I felt pretty good about Embiid having the higher ceiling.

Same goes for players like Cheick Diallo vs. Jamari Traylor.

DH and Yesufu are so much closer in talent and "ceiling" than either of those examples. They are also the same age.

Illy's better argument for Harris would be that he does play at or near his ceiling on a pretty consistent basis. And that should be celebrated.

Yesufu, not even close, and that's what makes it so tempting to go with Dajuan.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:06 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:03 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:41 pmI think it's very hard to evaluate a players "ceiling" without watching practices. It's a projection.

I didn't watch a single full practice of Embiid's or Tarik's and I felt pretty good about Embiid having the higher ceiling.

Same goes for players like Cheick Diallo vs. Jamari Traylor.

DH and Yesufu are so much closer in talent and "ceiling" than either of those examples.

By the way you phrased this statement, I agree. Just pointing out the completely flawed logic.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:56 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:00 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:53 pm

What?! That is like the definition of a low ceiling for a KU player. 5pts, 4ast, 1st in 30 minutes a game? And I don't think anyone can say Dajuan has played poorly--he's played about as well as he can.

If your ceiling is just starting for KU, then it's a very low ceiling for KU. Among our last 4 PG's we have had an NPOY award, a consensus first team AA selection, a consensus second team AA selection, and a national defensive player of the year award.

How many players have averaged 4 assists per game during the Self era? 5 or 6?

DH would be a star at Miami too.

Twelve actually. It has happened in every season that Self has been at Kansas but three so it is basically the floor for any KU PG, not an accomplishment.

Aaron Miles 03-04 & 04-05
Russell Robinson 05-06 & 06-07 & 07-08
Mario Chalmers 07-08
Sherron Collins 08-09 & 09-10
Tyshawn Taylor 10-11 & 11-12
Elijah Johnson 12-13
Naadir Tharpe 13-14
14-15 Frank Mason fell short, averaging 3.9apg
Frank Mason 15-16 & 17-18
Devonte Graham 17-18
18-19 Devon Dotson fell short at 3.5apg
Devon Dotson 19-20
Marcus Garrett 19-20
20-21 Marcus Garrett fell short at 3.7
21-22 Dajuan Harris

Sorry, but Harris has been by far the worst starting PG of the Bill Self era.

Thanks. Pdub already provided that.

DH is not "by far" the worst starting PG Self has had. But he's definitely at or near the bottom. With Tharpe and Hawkins....but Yesufu would be right there with him. Well that is if he was capable of beating out DH, which he doesn't appear to be so far.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:27 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:22 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:17 pm Aaron Miles x2.
Vonte x2.
Frank x2.
Sherron x2.
Tharpe.
TyTy x2.
Elijah.
Garrett.
RussRob x2.
Chalmers.
Dotson.

Every single one.

Yes.
And almost every single season.
Except 2 seasons.

Can you name the seasons and the player with the highest APG for those two seasons?

It was three seasons.
14-15 Frank Mason fell short at3.9apg
18-19 Devon Dotson fell short at 3.5apg
20-21 Marcus Garrett fell short at 3.7

So basically three of our worst seasons under Self. Nine, ten and nine losses those three years.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:08 am Illy's better argument for Harris would be that he does play at or near his ceiling on a pretty consistent basis. And that should be celebrated.

Yesufu, not even close, and that's what makes it so tempting to go with Dajuan.

Jumping a little higher and running a little faster doesn't always mean higher basketball "ceiling" imo. Lots more to playing a team sport like basketball that those 2 traits.

I agree Yesufu looks like he should be better, but when they play he isn't. They are very comparable players with very similar "ceilings" imo. It's not like Yesufu is a future NBA player like Embiid or Diallo.

I'm not ready to go all randylahey, but I don't think I am alone and just seeing things to notice that Yesufu looks much stronger, much more athletic, much better at attacking the rim, and more potential on the jump shot.

And I know it was Drake, but Yesufu has shown he can go out and shoot and score at this level. Dajuan's not ever going to have the potential to be a guy that can go out and get you 20, 30 points, because he's never been that guy.

But recall that this entire thing started because I said that I had doubts about whether Yesufu could ever put it together here, so I share your skepticism despite thinking Yesufu has more natural tools to give him the higher ceiling.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:14 amJumping a little higher and running a little faster doesn't always mean higher basketball "ceiling" imo. Lots more to playing a team sport like basketball that those 2 traits.

Fine, but we know what Dajuan is going to give us in 30 minutes of game time and it's the lowest output we have ever seen under Self at the position.