Page 47 of 145
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:07 am
by twocoach
holidaysmore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:49 am
I don't see a quick fix for this season. I just don't. This team, IMO is closer to the bottom than they are the top. They are going to have to do a complete overhaul in the off-season and that means having some very difficult decisions to make coming up.
If this Chiefs organization wants to be closer to the Patriots than the Packers or Seattle they are going to have to make business decisions first. That means trying to trade Jones. Not renewing Tyrann. Trying to trade Tyreek. Not extending Kelce either. For to long this franchise has been able to get away with 'putting band-aids on bullet wounds'. That band-aid was 15 but when 15 came down to earth that revealed a glaring lack of talent on both sides of the ball. You compound that with bad front office moves and coaching hires you get what we see currently.
I hope I'm wrong but even then that might be 'fools gold' at best. This team needs a fresh start and changes on just about every level other than QB.
I don't think the overhaul is that drastic. They just need to jettison some vastly overpaid defensive talent and the offense needs to be a little more honest about the way they are practicing and playing. They have enjoyed being able to fuck around in practice doing crazy plays and getting wild because the results were still good but now they just look sloppy, unprepared and careless. Time to get back to work and practice like regular professionals and quit fucking around. That attitude has to start with their leader, Mahomes, and filter down hill to the rest of the unit. And Reid needs to risk being the asshole by demanding it of Mahomes.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:10 am
by holidaysmore
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:03 am
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:57 am
I'm keeping Kelce, Hill and Mahomes together if I can.
Trading Jones and not renewing Mathieu should be on the table.
This is where I'm at.
I'm also not as down as most seem to be. Yesterday was an abomination, of course, and elite teams simply don't do that.
Well, the Chiefs aren't elite.
But nor are they, I don't think, truly worse than above average.
We'd feel
very differently today if CEH hadn't fumbled that ball, and there hadn't been the fluky turnovers against the Chargers.
Which isn't to say those things didn't happen, or the results don't count. But I still very much think this is a team that can round itself into being the scariest road team in the playoffs.
Which to me, is the problem. For seven weeks we have talked about not turning the ball over and just being slightly better on the defensive side of the ball. The reason why I am so down on this team is because those issues are becoming regularities not anomalies.
I hope I'm wrong. I really do. A team with 15, Kelce and Hill shouldn't be this bad on offense but are we all holding on to the memories of the past instead of what is the current.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:10 am
by pdub
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:03 am
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:57 am
I'm keeping Kelce, Hill and Mahomes together if I can.
Trading Jones and not renewing Mathieu should be on the table.
This is where I'm at.
I'm also not as down as most seem to be. Yesterday was an abomination, of course, and elite teams simply don't do that.
Well, the Chiefs aren't elite.
But nor are they, I don't think, truly worse than above average.
We'd feel
very differently today if CEH hadn't fumbled that ball, and there hadn't been the fluky turnovers against the Chargers.
Which isn't to say those things didn't happen, or the results don't count. But I still very much think this is a team that can round itself into being the scariest road team in the playoffs.
I still do think this could be a playoff team that gets a wildcard.
10-7 might get you there.
If you were, say, the 2 seed Bengals, opening at home to Mahomes, it wouldn't NOT be scary.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:17 am
by jhawks99
This is what we get for letting Sammy go.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:18 am
by holidaysmore
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:07 am
holidaysmore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:49 am
I don't see a quick fix for this season. I just don't. This team, IMO is closer to the bottom than they are the top. They are going to have to do a complete overhaul in the off-season and that means having some very difficult decisions to make coming up.
If this Chiefs organization wants to be closer to the Patriots than the Packers or Seattle they are going to have to make business decisions first. That means trying to trade Jones. Not renewing Tyrann. Trying to trade Tyreek. Not extending Kelce either. For to long this franchise has been able to get away with 'putting band-aids on bullet wounds'. That band-aid was 15 but when 15 came down to earth that revealed a glaring lack of talent on both sides of the ball. You compound that with bad front office moves and coaching hires you get what we see currently.
I hope I'm wrong but even then that might be 'fools gold' at best. This team needs a fresh start and changes on just about every level other than QB.
I don't think the overhaul is that drastic. They just need to jettison some vastly overpaid defensive talent and the offense needs to be a little more honest about the way they are practicing and playing. They have enjoyed being able to fuck around in practice doing crazy plays and getting wild because the results were still good but now they just look sloppy, unprepared and careless. Time to get back to work and practice like regular professionals and quit fucking around. That attitude has to start with their leader, Mahomes, and filter down hill to the rest of the unit. And Reid needs to risk being the asshole by demanding it of Mahomes.
Again, I hate to go all 'Gutter' here but wouldn't getting your ass kicked by Tampa woke you up? Wouldn't getting your ass kicked by Buffalo made you realize where you were? They knew the stakes coming into the Tennessee game and they looked lifeless.
That isn't and never will be Reid's MO. I don't see him behind closed doors but isn't this the same reason why he got run out of Philly? Undisciplined teams?
You know why Brady, MJ and Kobe were consistent winners. They were assholes who didn't care about friendships they wanted to win at all costs. Again, I don't see Mahomes behind closed doors either but I also don't see that out of his personality either. Maybe that is a good thing but I don't see either of those scenarios you pointed out coming to fruition.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:40 am
by jfish26
holidaysmore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:10 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:03 am
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:57 am
I'm keeping Kelce, Hill and Mahomes together if I can.
Trading Jones and not renewing Mathieu should be on the table.
This is where I'm at.
I'm also not as down as most seem to be. Yesterday was an abomination, of course, and elite teams simply don't do that.
Well, the Chiefs aren't elite.
But nor are they, I don't think, truly worse than above average.
We'd feel
very differently today if CEH hadn't fumbled that ball, and there hadn't been the fluky turnovers against the Chargers.
Which isn't to say those things didn't happen, or the results don't count. But I still very much think this is a team that can round itself into being the scariest road team in the playoffs.
Which to me, is the problem. For seven weeks we have talked about not turning the ball over and just being slightly better on the defensive side of the ball. The reason why I am so down on this team is because those issues are becoming regularities not anomalies.
I hope I'm wrong. I really do. A team with 15, Kelce and Hill shouldn't be this bad on offense but are we all holding on to the memories of the past instead of what is the current.
I just don't yet see it being a "memories of the past" thing where the only guy in that trio who is underperforming...is the healthy 26-year-old.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am
by holidaysmore
I don't want this to seem like I'm coming at you but in the games against LA, Baltimore, Buffalo and now Tennessee these are Hill and Kelce's stats.
Hill:
3 for 14 against the Ravens
5 for 56 against the Chargers
7 for 63 against the Bills
6 for 49 against the Titans
ZERO TDs in those games
Kelce:
7 for 109 against the Ravens
7 for 104 against the Chargers
6 for 57 against the Bills
7 for 65 against the Titans
2 TDs in those games
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:36 pm
by pdub
Those are pretty good numbers for Kelce.
Underwhelming, yes, for Hill.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:44 pm
by jfish26
holidaysmore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am
I don't want this to seem like I'm coming at you but in the games against LA, Baltimore, Buffalo and now Tennessee these are Hill and Kelce's stats.
Hill:
3 for 14 against the Ravens
5 for 56 against the Chargers
7 for 63 against the Bills
6 for 49 against the Titans
ZERO TDs in those games
Kelce:
7 for 109 against the Ravens
7 for 104 against the Chargers
6 for 57 against the Bills
7 for 65 against the Titans
2 TDs in those games
I get it. I don't think it's a skill/talent issue. I think it's a scheme issue - namely, that this iteration of the Chiefs offense has been figured out. And we still can't protect Mahomes even when only faced with a four-man rush.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:21 pm
by Sparko
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:44 pm
holidaysmore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am
I don't want this to seem like I'm coming at you but in the games against LA, Baltimore, Buffalo and now Tennessee these are Hill and Kelce's stats.
Hill:
3 for 14 against the Ravens
5 for 56 against the Chargers
7 for 63 against the Bills
6 for 49 against the Titans
ZERO TDs in those games
Kelce:
7 for 109 against the Ravens
7 for 104 against the Chargers
6 for 57 against the Bills
7 for 65 against the Titans
2 TDs in those games
I get it. I don't think it's a skill/talent issue. I think it's a scheme issue - namely, that this iteration of the Chiefs offense has been figured out. And we still can't protect Mahomes even when only faced with a four-man rush.
Mahomes was being savaged all game long. The OL turned in a terrible performance which looked a lot like Tampa. The answer was quick decision passing and runs. Teams are getting away with playing two ridiculously deep safeties and holding receivers on their take off.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:24 pm
by jfish26
Sparko wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:21 pm
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:44 pm
holidaysmore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am
I don't want this to seem like I'm coming at you but in the games against LA, Baltimore, Buffalo and now Tennessee these are Hill and Kelce's stats.
Hill:
3 for 14 against the Ravens
5 for 56 against the Chargers
7 for 63 against the Bills
6 for 49 against the Titans
ZERO TDs in those games
Kelce:
7 for 109 against the Ravens
7 for 104 against the Chargers
6 for 57 against the Bills
7 for 65 against the Titans
2 TDs in those games
I get it. I don't think it's a skill/talent issue. I think it's a scheme issue - namely, that this iteration of the Chiefs offense has been figured out. And we still can't protect Mahomes even when only faced with a four-man rush.
Mahomes was being savaged all game long. The OL turned in a terrible performance which looked a lot like Tampa. The answer was quick decision passing and runs. Teams are getting away with playing two ridiculously deep safeties and holding receivers on their take off.
It's also - and I'm assuming this is a Reid/Bienemy issue, not a Mahomes issue -
not good that everything is a five- or seven-step drop. Things just take too long, too often.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:28 pm
by Sparko
Yes! The long drop backs hem in the QB as the protection falters. Ends have been running wide in anticipation of 7-step drops. They have altered the rush to pressure him deeper.
I like Mahomes in space. Hate seeing a collapsing pocket. 15 must have bought jinxed monkey's paw with the unlucky interceptions and bounces this year.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:45 pm
by twocoach
holidaysmore wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:49 am
I don't want this to seem like I'm coming at you but in the games against LA, Baltimore, Buffalo and now Tennessee these are Hill and Kelce's stats.
Hill:
3 for 14 against the Ravens
5 for 56 against the Chargers
7 for 63 against the Bills
6 for 49 against the Titans
ZERO TDs in those games
Kelce:
7 for 109 against the Ravens
7 for 104 against the Chargers
6 for 57 against the Bills
7 for 65 against the Titans
2 TDs in those games
And when our offense was functioning well last season, Hill had 13 for 269 and 3 TDs at Tampa and 9 for 172 vs the Bills in the playoffs.
We all agree that what the Chiefs are doing this year isn't working. But you dont jettison your best WR because you are pissed it isn't working like you hoped. There is no actual football reason why you would let a weapon like that go.
There are a lot of adjustments that can be made before you get to "get rid of your best offensive threat". That's crazy talk. How about we start with "reevaluate the LT position, retool the playbook to give Mahomes more dumb off options if pressured, give the rest of the line more reps to gel and think about an upgrade at RB" before we sell off Tyreek Hill. There were a lot of times yesterday where I didn't even see anyone for Mahomes to go to out in the flat or short distance. It was either chuck it deep, waste it out of bounds, tuck it and run or take a sack.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:56 pm
by jfish26
Sparko wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:28 pm
Yes! The long drop backs hem in the QB as the protection falters. Ends have been running wide in anticipation of 7-step drops. They have altered the rush to pressure him deeper.
I like Mahomes in space. Hate seeing a collapsing pocket. 15 must have bought jinxed monkey's paw with the unlucky interceptions and bounces this year.
It's purely a math problem. Right now, the amount of time the tackles can stop the pass rush is less than the time it takes Mahomes to drop back.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:00 pm
by holidaysmore
I see everyone's points and to a certain degree agree and disagree with all of them, lol. Now if I had the choice I would keep Hill more than Kelce. I just believe that both of them are going to want big money and I don't know how you can keep all of those guys along with Mahomes and Jones on your payroll along with bringing in some much needed veteran help.
The one thing I can say is IF (and by week seven I would have a hard time being convinced they can) they can fix the turnover issue that would go a long way towards fixing this situation.
I hate Tom Brady but his game is so simple. Generally the ball comes out in a second and you just don't see him in 2 and 8 or 3rd and 10. It always 2 and 4 and 3rd and 3.
Mahomes, is definitely pressing and doesn't trust his tackles.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:05 pm
by pdub
Get Jones off your payroll.
Get Clark off your payroll.
Hill and Kelce are one of a kind at their positions.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:07 pm
by jfish26
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:05 pm
Get Jones off your payroll.
Get Clark off your payroll.
Hill and Kelce are one of a kind at their positions.
Not sure who's taking on Jones at the relevant cap numbers.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:19 pm
by holidaysmore
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:05 pm
Get Jones off your payroll.
Get Clark off your payroll.
Hill and Kelce are one of a kind at their positions.
Don't disagree with that. Kelce, is a first ballot dude. Hill, may not be far off but I can't feel really good about extending Kelce for four or five years. That just seems reckless for a TE heading into his 30s who has played a TON of football over the last three years. You have to believe that the drop off in his production is coming.
Hill, I can see the argument for but the Chiefs have to get more out of him when the deep ball isn't happening. That means either you scheme it up better or you have to find other guys who Mahomes can depend on to loosen up coverages for Hill.
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:21 pm
by pdub
"That means either you scheme it up better or you have to find other guys who Mahomes can depend on to loosen up coverages for Hill."
Re: Chiefs 2021
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:27 pm
by holidaysmore
I give Veach some what of a pass for 'missing' on DK. They had the Hill bombshell to deal with and probably panicked on drafting Hardman. What I don't give him a pass for is drafting CEH.