Kansas Crimson

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:03 am I’ve been assuming Indy for the whole time bc of easier flight and flight times. More drivable, too.

A reason to pick Houston might be the Indy possibility that Bill has a couple too many T&Ts and goes apeshit on some administrator unlucky enough to be in the room.

Are there more direct flights out of KC to Indy than there are direct flights to Houston?
How much longer is the flight time to Houston than Indianapolis? Probably not more than a half hour or so.
I would argue that Houston is a better city than Indianapolis if you prefer better weather, and more hotel, food, and entertainment options. You could go see the Astros play the Angels - and do some heckling.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:25 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:06 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:46 am

That's dumb. If a team has a fluky season and wins the Big 12 regular season, they get a 3 seed or better (see State, Kansas). If a team has a fluky Big 12 title run, they arent pulling up to a 3 seed unless they were already a 4 seed.

Looking at it from the opposite perspective. If KU falls apart and gets third in the regular season, they are dropping to probably a 4 seed. If they drop their first game in KC, they are still a 1 seed.

So yeah, they are different in pretty much every way possible.

So you're basically saying it's all about the NCAA tournament/seeding? Which is fine. I won't argue if that's how you feel. But it still doesn't make the big 12 tournament irrelevant.

My point is that it's NOT all about the NCAA tournament. Although that's definitely the most important part. I think winning conference regular season and conference tournament is also important.

Since the modern tourney era (since 85) KU has been to 9 Final Fours. They only won the conference tourney in 3 of those 9 seasons.

But they won the conference regular season title in 8 of those 9 seasons.

The stats tell me that failing to win the conference tourney isnt important at all. It's fun to win and I hope we win every game that we play but it hasnt seem to had any negative impact on our season at all. We've actually made the Final Four more in seasons where we failed to win the conference tourney at a much higher rate than in seasons when we did.

I appreciate you looking up those stats, even if I'm not sure they're all that relevant. Of course when we have better teams (final 4 caliber) we do well in the conference race.

How's this for a stat: Bill Self has only won a national title with a team that won the conference tournament as well.... (they also shared the conference regular season crown).

The 1988 national Champs didn't win either of the conference tournament or conference regular season....so there's that.

Grandma wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:05 am Are there more direct flights out of KC to Indy than there are direct flights to Houston?
How much longer is the flight time to Houston than Indianapolis? Probably not more than a half hour or so.
I would argue that Houston is a better city than Indianapolis if you prefer better weather, and more hotel, food, and entertainment options. You could go see the Astros play the Angels - and do some heckling.

To each his own - I think Houston is in the bottom quarter of big American cities.

In fact, here's how I order the top-20 US MSAs (obviously abbreviating):

NYC
Los Angeles
Chicago
Washington, DC
San Francisco

San Diego
Minneapolis
Denver
Boston
Philadelphia

Dallas
Seattle
Phoenix
Miami
Atlanta

Tampa
Houston
St. Louis
Detroit
Riverside

There is also a familiarity with Indy being that we play there for the Champions.

I'm not sure the setup in Houston, but team hotel in Indy is real close to the venue.

Did a little more digging on national Champs the last decade...

5 out of 9 won or shared their regular season conference title.

3 out of 9 won their conference tournament.

2 out of 9 won neither of those.

1 out of 9 won both of those.


The most surprising trend... 7 out of 9 won an early season tournament (battle 4 atlantis, maui, coaches v cancer, nit preseason tip off.

Only 1 of the last 9 national champions failed to win EITHER their conference tournament OR a preseason tournament. So maybe having some experience winning tournaments helps?

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:41 am Did a little more digging on national Champs the last decade...

5 out of 9 won or shared their regular season conference title.

3 out of 9 won their conference tournament.

2 out of 9 won neither of those.

1 out of 9 won both of those.


The most surprising trend... 7 out of 9 won an early season tournament (battle 4 atlantis, maui, coaches v cancer, nit preseason tip off.

Only 1 of the last 9 national champions failed to win EITHER their conference tournament OR a preseason tournament. So maybe having some experience winning tournaments helps?

I would guess that it works a little differently - to the extent the early tournaments are a predictor, it's because talent plays. Particularly early in the season, before too much scheme is in play.

JFish fails miserably by putting Seattle below spots like Minneapolis, Dallas and Philly.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:41 am Did a little more digging on national Champs the last decade...

5 out of 9 won or shared their regular season conference title.

3 out of 9 won their conference tournament.

2 out of 9 won neither of those.

1 out of 9 won both of those.


The most surprising trend... 7 out of 9 won an early season tournament (battle 4 atlantis, maui, coaches v cancer, nit preseason tip off.

Only 1 of the last 9 national champions failed to win EITHER their conference tournament OR a preseason tournament. So maybe having some experience winning tournaments helps?

quality sleuthing right there

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:45 am JFish fails miserably by putting Seattle below spots like Minneapolis, Dallas and Philly.

Seattle is the Phoenix of the Pacific Northwest. Seattle and Minneapolis are very similar, but the pretentiousness and self-importance are just way out of fucking whack in Seattle.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:45 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:41 am Did a little more digging on national Champs the last decade...

5 out of 9 won or shared their regular season conference title.

3 out of 9 won their conference tournament.

2 out of 9 won neither of those.

1 out of 9 won both of those.


The most surprising trend... 7 out of 9 won an early season tournament (battle 4 atlantis, maui, coaches v cancer, nit preseason tip off.

Only 1 of the last 9 national champions failed to win EITHER their conference tournament OR a preseason tournament. So maybe having some experience winning tournaments helps?

I would guess that it works a little differently - to the extent the early tournaments are a predictor, it's because talent plays. Particularly early in the season, before too much scheme is in play.

Fwiw if curious..

the 2 who didn't win an early season tourney were...
2012-2013: Louisville
2011-2012: Kentucky

And the only 1 to win both conference regular season and conference tourney was 2012-2013 Louisville.

The 2 to win neither conference or conference tourney were 2014-2015 duke and 2013-2014 uconn.

In other words, good teams win tournaments and conference championships but you don't need to win a tournament or conference championship to win the NCAA Tournament?

My personal experience, Indy is a fantastic city for hosting NCAA Tournament Basketball - and Houston is not.
That being said, I also feel Houston is better city if you're looking for more/better/nicer hotels, food, and entertainment.
As someone who lives in the Mid-West and enjoys traveling, there is very little about Indianapolis that excites me. But..... From a purely ONLY attending NCAA Tournament Basketball games standpoint, I would prefer Indy over Houston. Much easier to get around and Indy has their shit together.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:48 am

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:45 am JFish fails miserably by putting Seattle below spots like Minneapolis, Dallas and Philly.

Seattle is the Phoenix of the Pacific Northwest. Seattle and Minneapolis are very similar, but the pretentiousness and self-importance are just way out of fucking whack in Seattle.

Well, you’re right about Seattle

"Seattle and Minneapolis are very similar"

Live in Minneapolis, where the biggest attraction is a mall, with buggy summers and frigid winters.
Or in Seattle, right on the ocean, a quick drive to some of the most beautiful forests in the United States and one of the taller mountains as well, and while there is a decent amount of precipitation, the temperatures are moderate. And a better food scene to be sure.

Minneapolis dropped significantly with the losses of Prince and Kirby Puckett.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:55 am Minneapolis dropped significantly with the losses of Prince and Kirby Puckett.

they still have paul westerberg. that ain't chopped liver.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:54 am "Seattle and Minneapolis are very similar"

Live in Minneapolis, where the biggest attraction is a mall, with buggy summers and frigid winters.
Or in Seattle, right on the ocean, a quick drive to some of the most beautiful forests in the United States and one of the taller mountains as well, and while there is a decent amount of precipitation, the temperatures are moderate. And a better food scene to be sure.

If Minneapolis' "biggest attraction" is a mall, then Seattle's is either a fish market or a spire. Ok.

My rankings are, by their nature, subjective. The tech bro culture in Seattle is just an enormous off for me. I find the people in Minneapolis to be much more earnest, genuine and generally enjoyable to be around.

And I grant that there's some stunning scenery, but honestly the north shore of Lake Superior isn't so far off.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:55 am Minneapolis dropped significantly with the losses of Prince and Kirby Puckett.

The latter of these losses was probably humanity's net gain.

And I say that as someone who was a huge, huge Kirby fan while he played.

Indy is a quick 3 hour drive from here. I spent a week there on business a year or so ago. Downtown is pretty nice with a long river walk and zoo within walking distance of the hotel I stayed at. Pretty diverse restaurants downtown as well. I've been to worse places.

I mean back to my original point. Do you think KU and Self want more fans in the seats, or a half hour shorter flight with a neutral, possibly a road type of crowd?

I wouldn’t be surprised if Self chooses Houston. It’s not as cut and dry as KU is in the Midwest so let’s do that region. That Texas base would show up big time.