Kansas Crimson

If they didn’t take so long to arrest, would they still have burned down Arby’s?

(And my joke for that pic was gonna be, “well that’s one way to roast some beef.”)

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 10:15 am

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 6:04 pm Also:

Wait, where’s the other evidence?

and now that an arrest has been made, WTF was this?

Taken into custody, but no charging decisions made yet.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:47 pm Taken into custody, but no charging decisions made yet.

That is nice.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:39 pm If they didn’t take so long to arrest,

Response time was not inappropriate. Goal is for charges to stick.

But, I also didn't think the Arbery timeline was egregious given COVID, so I may be a little too forgiving.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:49 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:39 pm If they didn’t take so long to arrest,

Response time was not inappropriate. Goal is for charges to stick.

But, I also didn't think the Arbery timeline was egregious given COVID, so I may be a little too forgiving.

Justice delayed...

perhaps.

I dunno how criminal procedure works or whatever, but I have a difficult time imagining a delayed response for any other murder caught on video

Feral wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:56 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:49 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:39 pm If they didn’t take so long to arrest,

Response time was not inappropriate. Goal is for charges to stick.

But, I also didn't think the Arbery timeline was egregious given COVID, so I may be a little too forgiving.

Justice delayed...

I get it, I look for racism everywhere.

But, I don't think that quote really applies in this context. Regardless, my overall point is that I want murderers in jail and not out of jail because they squirm out under due process violations.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:57 pm perhaps.

I dunno how criminal procedure works or whatever, but I have a difficult time imagining a delayed response for any other murder caught on video

Sure, but police have defenses available to them that citizens do not.

So attorney's out there, what's the likely scenario for the POS cop? 1st degree murder would have to prove intent right? Probably hard to prove 1st degree. Manslaughter?

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-c ... rview.html

Deliberation and Premeditation

Whether a killer acted with the deliberation and premeditation required for first degree murder can only be determined on a case by case basis. The need for deliberation and premeditation does not mean that the perpetrator must contemplate at length or plan far ahead of the murder. Time enough to form the conscious intent to kill and then act on it after enough time for a reasonable person to second guess the decision typically suffices. While this can happen very quickly, deliberation and premeditation must occur before, and not at the same time as, the act of killing.

this is just armchair lawyering, but if prosecutors are gonna swing for murder one, I'm guessing it hinges on arguing the cop had time to consciously deliberate the consequences of maintaining his knee for several minutes while the victim cried "I can't breathe" and subsequently went unresponsive?

...while bystanders pleaded for the cop to relent...

...and the victim was handcuffed in police custody...

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:03 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:57 pm perhaps.

I dunno how criminal procedure works or whatever, but I have a difficult time imagining a delayed response for any other murder caught on video

Sure, but police have defenses available to them that citizens do not.

in what way?

genuinely asking, I'm not familiar.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:03 pm https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-c ... rview.html

Deliberation and Premeditation

Whether a killer acted with the deliberation and premeditation required for first degree murder can only be determined on a case by case basis. The need for deliberation and premeditation does not mean that the perpetrator must contemplate at length or plan far ahead of the murder. Time enough to form the conscious intent to kill and then act on it after enough time for a reasonable person to second guess the decision typically suffices. While this can happen very quickly, deliberation and premeditation must occur before, and not at the same time as, the act of killing.

this is just armchair lawyering, but if prosecutors are gonna swing for murder one, I'm guessing it hinges on arguing the cop had time to consciously deliberate the consequences of maintaining his knee for several minutes while the victim cried "I can't breathe" and subsequently went unresponsive?

...while bystanders pleaded for the cop to relent...

...and the victim was handcuffed in police custody...

When did you become an attorney? lol. Good stuff, I'm too lazy to look up. Thanks Ous.

shindig wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:03 pm So attorney's out there, what's the likely scenario for the POS cop? 1st degree murder would have to prove intent right? Probably hard to prove 1st degree. Manslaughter?

In Minnesota, they have 3rd degree murder, which is really 1st degree manslaughter pretty much everywhere else in the country, including Missouri.

My 2 minute analysis make me believe it will either be a 3rd degree murder or whatever the harshest "manslaughter" charge is in Minnesota.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:04 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:03 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 12:57 pm perhaps.

I dunno how criminal procedure works or whatever, but I have a difficult time imagining a delayed response for any other murder caught on video

Sure, but police have defenses available to them that citizens do not.

in what way?

genuinely asking, I'm not familiar.

Those public-sector unions y'all love so much.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:07 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:04 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:03 pm

Sure, but police have defenses available to them that citizens do not.

in what way?

genuinely asking, I'm not familiar.

Those public-sector unions y'all love so much.

Not Nice.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 10:56 am wait, wut?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... e-updates/

Minneapolis City Council Vice President Andrea Jenkins said George Floyd and fired police officer Derek Chauvin knew each other for many years because they worked security at the same night club.

That would open the door to 1st.

Initial charge is 3rd.

wait, so a prior relationship could be factored in?

I imagine the fact the dude was in custody will play a big role as well? (this might become more unique to police defenses, or might be used as leverage to make the case, ETA precisely because police have some additional duty to someone in their custody? I dunno)

and the fact bystanders were pleading too? (this might be on a more basic universal level of humanity, to know to let up if someone says they can't breathe?)

NiceDC wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:08 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:07 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:04 pm

in what way?

genuinely asking, I'm not familiar.

Those public-sector unions y'all love so much.

Not Nice.

Thanks for the clarification!

Nice!