Kansas Crimson

Watching PD cam. Watching the shootouts are frightening. Slays me when people can't obey cops orders to get down or stop resisting, even when faced with K-9. Guess when you're scared or high you're not thinking rationally or thinking straight. Cops place their lives on the line every day.

Crazy to see how badly these 2 officers react to a live fire.

More than proves my point that arming teachers is a dumb fucking idea.

JFC Nobody is going to arm teachers.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:08 pm JFC Nobody is going to arm teachers.

Captain Cheeto thinks it is a good idea.

Hell Aardvark was a huge fan.

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:26 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:08 pm JFC Nobody is going to arm teachers.

Captain Cheeto thinks it is a good idea.

Hell Aardvark was a huge fan.

President Cheeto can "think" whatever he wants.... if you can even classify what goes on in that giant pumpkin of his as "thinking".


I'd rather just have cops at the schools if it's necessary for teachers to carry guns.

2 troopers, 3 guns and a taser.

Horrible positioning in the initial restraint maneuvers.
Failed to restrain him while he was under the effects of the taser.
Failure to secure a firearm.
Kicking and punching would be unnecessary if he had been properly restrained.
2 troopers bunched together while under fire.
1 trooper made himself a HUGE target under fire. Caught a couple right off the bat.
2nd trooper initially failed to blade himself toward live fire.
2nd trooper fired several shots that missed a man that was 6 feet from him.
2nd trooper stayed in a position that made him a HUGE target.

Once again, when the shooting starts.....

jeeper - Not trying to defend the troopers, I'm trying to better understand why they were as seemingly incompetent as it appears they were - and your pointing out mistakes that they made.
I seem to recall your saying you have been involved in a "shootout" and/or have actually been shot.
How the heck do you not panic in those situations no matter how well trained you are?
Probably a horrible analogy but I am on the "life safety team" at work. We have "drills" multiple times a year. I am 98% convinced if there was an actual emergency that 99% of my fellow employees would blow off their roles and it would be every man and woman for themselves. Granted, we are not trained law enforcement officers but the comparison is when going in to survival mode I would think all "training" and "protocol" pretty much goes in the toilet at that point. Yes? No?

Gutter wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:55 pm jeeper - Not trying to defend the troopers, I'm trying to better understand why they were as seemingly incompetent as it appears they were - and your pointing out mistakes that they made.
I seem to recall your saying you have been involved in a "shootout" and/or have actually been shot.
How the heck do you not panic in those situations no matter how well trained you are?
Probably a horrible analogy but I am on the "life safety team" at work. We have "drills" multiple times a year. I am 98% convinced if there was an actual emergency that 99% of my fellow employees would blow off their roles and it would be every man and woman for themselves. Granted, we are not trained law enforcement officers but the comparison is when going in to survival mode I would think all "training" and "protocol" pretty much goes in the toilet at that point. Yes? No?

If you cannot stand the sight of blood, dont be an ER surgeon.

If you cannot adhere to your training and the law, even under extreme duress then dont be a police officer.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:31 pm

If you cannot adhere to your training and the law, even under extreme duress then dont be a police officer.

They don't get shit for training. And even training for years doesn't prepare you for actual live fire. You should bitch more about things you know nothing about.

What an idiot. He really thought shooting at them was going make him a free man? Meanwhile he's unaware the whole thing is being recorded with plate on video. Police are sometimes corrupt assholes, but these guys did nothing wrong.

Gutter wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:55 pm jeeper - Not trying to defend the troopers, I'm trying to better understand why they were as seemingly incompetent as it appears they were - and your pointing out mistakes that they made.
I seem to recall your saying you have been involved in a "shootout" and/or have actually been shot.
How the heck do you not panic in those situations no matter how well trained you are?
Probably a horrible analogy but I am on the "life safety team" at work. We have "drills" multiple times a year. I am 98% convinced if there was an actual emergency that 99% of my fellow employees would blow off their roles and it would be every man and woman for themselves. Granted, we are not trained law enforcement officers but the comparison is when going in to survival mode I would think all "training" and "protocol" pretty much goes in the toilet at that point. Yes? No?

Intensive training for live fire incidents are fairly rare for city/county police (outside of S.W.A.T).

Probably more access to training in these situations for state level officers.

As with many departments, advanced training is rarely taken advantage of.

At the Federal Level, the training at Glynco is dramatically more intensive with regards to high stress security and control than training available to state or local departments.

Advsnced training in recognizing a potential security threat BEFORE it escalates is a big part of it.

You can see in the video that the first several shots by all 3 parties were wild, blind fire shots. One officer removed himself from the situation, making his partner the sole target.

The suspect, once focused on the officer that is kneeling, was rewarded with a large target that was still firing pretty wild.

That officer put himself in a position that presented only a few inches of the suspects head. Firing in rapid succession...his 2nd,3rd 4th shots were absolutely pointless.

The suspect, however, could see more than half of the nearly prone officers body. Sitting duck.

Stand, acquire a target, fire. If he bladed himself, he would actually be a smaller target.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:04 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:31 pm

If you cannot adhere to your training and the law, even under extreme duress then dont be a police officer.

They don't get shit for training. And even training for years doesn't prepare you for actual live fire. You should bitch more about things you know nothing about.

As an FYI, I have both you and PhD blocked now. So don't waste your time polluting the boards with your whining and name calling because I won't see it. I have had enough of you.

And yes, police officers receive training. Enough? Obviously not in some cases.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:04 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:31 pm

If you cannot adhere to your training and the law, even under extreme duress then dont be a police officer.

They don't get shit for training. And even training for years doesn't prepare you for actual live fire. You should bitch more about things you know nothing about.

Training can indeed prepare you for live fire. And once again, I know a LOT of L.E. that pass by or ignore advanced training.

If he bladed himself, he would actually be a smaller target.

^^^

Also, I still don't know how they let him up.

Exactly. While he is disoriented...cuff his hands, feet, anything.

2 officers should be able to get 1 suspect restrained.

ugh.

This is just awful on a number of levels.

I don’t think the cops did anything wrong, but as has been suggested, they didn’t do much right either.

I heard at least one veteran cop say his favorite thing to do was tell people “you’re under arrest” but take a while to actually do anything about it. Don’t cuff em, don’t frisk em, don’t put em in the back of the cruiser. Just keep telling them they’re under arrest. Over and over. Just to see how they’d react.

Why?

Cuz this was an otherwise bored cop on an otherwise boring routine traffic stop, though if the subject got rattled enough about hearing they’re under arrest then maybe they would fight or flight in just the exciting kind of way that might make my day.

Watched a bouncer beating the living shit out of some drunk I assumed suburban kid in a back alley of a bar near Division street in Chicago. Kid was bleeding profusely from the head as his head was being repeatedly smashed into the ground/street. He was pretty much out cold if not actually dying. I and others who were witnessing it yelled at the bouncer to stop and that the kid was in no way a threat to him or anyone else. Bouncer asked me and the others if we "wanted some". Guy was completely out of control.
Saw a couple of cops less than a block away. Ran and told the cops. The fucking bouncer ran away.
Of course someone in the bar had to identify the employee.
To this day, I wonder to what extent the cops would have beaten the shit out of the bouncer if he had thrown a punch at one of them and what would have happened if one of them was forced to draw a weapon.

Which all brings me to.......
JEEPER - Can/will you please chime in?
Having dinner with some buddies in a restaurant on Rush Street. We're upstairs. One of the guys I was with had a friend in town who was with us. He was cop from Cincinnati. A drunk couple was sitting near the window and thought it was funny when the woman kept dropping ice cubes on people who were dining outside on the patio below them. The manger approached the couple and was extremely polite. Told the man that his companion was over served and told them to please leave the restaurant and that dinner was on the house. Drunk guy threw an absolute shit fit. Got up from the table, yelled at the manager, then put his hands on him and took a swing. All hell broke loose to the point where the drunk guy started picking up tables that people were sitting at and trying to toss them. The cop I was with quickly identified himself as a cop and told the guy to cool off. The drunk guy took a swing at the cop and the cop immediately put him in a headlock and incapacitated him until the Chicago cops showed up. If I am not mistaken, I seem to recall the cop told me that while he was not on duty and out of his jurisdiction, but being that he identified himself as a cop in what was a situation where he felt people's lives were in danger (yes, that's extreme), he actually had the responsibility to intervene. Is that true/possible?

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:08 pm JFC Nobody is going to arm teachers.

Resolutions to arm teachers have passed in Florida, Colorado and Virginia.

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:58 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:08 pm JFC Nobody is going to arm teachers.

Resolutions to arm teachers have passed in Florida, Colorado and Virginia.

He mostly wanted to use my patented JFC.