What is a woman?

[randylahey]

Something so basic has somehow become a controversial question in our society. What happened that got us here?

[Mjl]

Your obsession with this - you should talk to someone.
Seriously.

[Shirley]

Randy, since you're not sure, maybe you should contact this guy, who's been doing research:

[pdub]

If you are actually a libertarian as you’ve said in the past then you wouldn’t give a fuck if some boys or men wanted to be and identified as women. And you’d also not give a fuck if some businesses helped those people become women. You’d just want the free market to run its course and the government to stay out of it.

But you aren’t a libertarian at all.
You’re just a brainwashed moran.

[Sparko]

I am yet to find an authentic Galt living the solitary life free of shackling others

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Something so basic has somehow become a controversial question in our society. What happened that got us here?

Let me guess, you didn't watch all 95 minutes of the "documentary"?
Better yet, let me guess, you didn't watch 2 minutes of it?
Best yet, let me guess, you have no fucking clue why Musk tweeted what he did?

To answer your question - I don't have a single definitive answer but I feel one of the things that got "us" here is a shit load of people in this county prefer hatred, exclusion, and division over love, inclusion, and unity. Seems yourself included.

[Sparko]

When "get off my lawn" doesn't satisfy in its reach, it can be projected on whole groups of people. Misery loves more miserable neighbors more than company.

[DCHawk1]

So...this thread AND this movie resonate with me for personal reasons.

As I mentioned on the old board (Vega's board, I think), my oldest daughter had several friends in middle and high school who were "trans." Note that I use the past tense of the verb here. Of her 6 friends who were trans, 5 of them (who are all now legal, drinking-age adults) are happy, out, and proud lesbian women. They know what a woman is, and they are ALL grateful to be women. (The last one now professes not to be trans but nonbinary).

Two of these young women are among my daughter's very closest and best friends, always have been, and always will be. And they laugh and joke now about how "dumb" (their word, not mine) they were when they were kids.

I know that most of you believe firmly and incontrovertibly that the trans-panic is, as James Carville might put it, "boob-bait for Bubbas." But that's not all there is to it. There is a real and genuine effort on the part of certain parts of the educational/therapeutic establishments to advance trans acceptance on the backs of confused adolescents.

I have little doubt that these girls all would have been told at least to consider transitioning socially, if they had been in middle and high school right now, rather than just a few years ago. I also know that it would have been disastrous and destructive for all of them.

I won't pretend that much of the issue on the Right isn't a case of power-seeking disguised as concern and compassion. Much is. But not all of it. And there are reasons why medical and chemical transitioning may be too radical for many/most children.

Some of the most powerful voices on trans issues are gay men and women -- Andrew Sullivan and Glenn Greenwald to name two -- who argue that the full-throated embrace of trans "ideology" has erased much of the progress of the gay rights movement and that it seeks, in fact, to erase gay men and women entirely. The latter is undoubtedly hyperbolic, but the former has some merit.

In any case, I don't believe that this issue is quite as black and white as many might suppose.

[Mjl]

That's a helluva post

[pdub]

I didn’t watch the movie because I’m 99.9% positive what the makers intentions are.

I do agree that public schools shouldn’t teach or promote transgender transition because that’s tax dollars spent by the people of whom I’d bet the majority of whom would not want that taught/promoted at a young age.

I’d also say that privately I wouldn’t support parents beginning a biological transition for their kid until they were 18/an adult.

But that’s their kid in the end. I sure as hell am not gonna get on social media and blast how wrong it is. Or watch a movie that says how wrong it is and then some.

[KUTradition]

So...this thread AND this movie resonate with me for personal reasons.

As I mentioned on the old board (Vega's board, I think), my oldest daughter had several friends in middle and high school who were "trans." Note that I use the past tense of the verb here. Of her 6 friends who were trans, 5 of them (who are all now legal, drinking-age adults) are happy, out, and proud lesbian women. They know what a woman is, and they are ALL grateful to be women. (The last one now professes not to be trans but nonbinary).

Two of these young women are among my daughter's very closest and best friends, always have been, and always will be. And they laugh and joke now about how "dumb" (their word, not mine) they were when they were kids.

I know that most of you believe firmly and incontrovertibly that the trans-panic is, as James Carville might put it, "boob-bait for Bubbas." But that's not all there is to it. There is a real and genuine effort on the part of certain parts of the educational/therapeutic establishments to advance trans acceptance on the backs of confused adolescents.

I have little doubt that these girls all would have been told at least to consider transitioning socially, if they had been in middle and high school right now, rather than just a few years ago. I also know that it would have been disastrous and destructive for all of them.

I won't pretend that much of the issue on the Right isn't a case of power-seeking disguised as concern and compassion. Much is. But not all of it. And there are reasons why medical and chemical transitioning may be too radical for many/most children.

Some of the most powerful voices on trans issues are gay men and women -- Andrew Sullivan and Glenn Greenwald to name two -- who argue that the full-throated embrace of trans "ideology" has erased much of the progress of the gay rights movement and that it seeks, in fact, to erase gay men and women entirely. The latter is undoubtedly hyperbolic, but the former has some merit.

In any case, I don't believe that this issue is quite as black and white as many might suppose.

awesome and appreciated post…all except the bolded part

[twocoach]

So...this thread AND this movie resonate with me for personal reasons.

As I mentioned on the old board (Vega's board, I think), my oldest daughter had several friends in middle and high school who were "trans." Note that I use the past tense of the verb here. Of her 6 friends who were trans, 5 of them (who are all now legal, drinking-age adults) are happy, out, and proud lesbian women. They know what a woman is, and they are ALL grateful to be women. (The last one now professes not to be trans but nonbinary).

Two of these young women are among my daughter's very closest and best friends, always have been, and always will be. And they laugh and joke now about how "dumb" (their word, not mine) they were when they were kids.

I know that most of you believe firmly and incontrovertibly that the trans-panic is, as James Carville might put it, "boob-bait for Bubbas." But that's not all there is to it. There is a real and genuine effort on the part of certain parts of the educational/therapeutic establishments to advance trans acceptance on the backs of confused adolescents.

I have little doubt that these girls all would have been told at least to consider transitioning socially, if they had been in middle and high school right now, rather than just a few years ago. I also know that it would have been disastrous and destructive for all of them.

I won't pretend that much of the issue on the Right isn't a case of power-seeking disguised as concern and compassion. Much is. But not all of it. And there are reasons why medical and chemical transitioning may be too radical for many/most children.

Some of the most powerful voices on trans issues are gay men and women -- Andrew Sullivan and Glenn Greenwald to name two -- who argue that the full-throated embrace of trans "ideology" has erased much of the progress of the gay rights movement and that it seeks, in fact, to erase gay men and women entirely. The latter is undoubtedly hyperbolic, but the former has some merit.

In any case, I don't believe that this issue is quite as black and white as many might suppose.

I would agree with this. In general, there are not enough fully involved parents out there who take it upon themselves to pay attention to what is going on with their kids and their kids friends. Even fewer parents out there would be comfortable trying to navigate that conversation. Even fewer still have any sort of knowledge on the topic to speak to it with any sort of intelligence. Even fewer still can afford the time and money to seek out the proper counseling and guidance to maneuver through such a situation.

This is all something that should be handled with great care. "Be smart; no forever mistakes" is my advice that my kids get from me any time they leave my house without us and I think it applies here as well. It's one thing to recognize that you may be different than the "traditional model" but don't make any rash decisions until you are fully aware of the forever implications of your decisions. But if we took all the money being spent to try to ban drag shows for kids and spent it on funding counseling for at risk teens, we'd be better off as a society.

[pdub]

I watched parts of said video.
As expected, the guy doing the interviews is trying to be Daily Show'esque and ridicule the other side of the table, when the other side of the table doesn't agree with him, and edits it appropriately to make them look like they can't get any point across.
That's fine but, like the Daily Show, it also can't be taken seriously.

Dude has some valid points which DC addressed and I think, for me, it has to do with young people making life altering decisions before they are adults. And probably teaching kids of a certain age, before even sex ed is taught, say, in elementary school about transgenderism. But if you're defending and highlighting a business owner, just a few minutes into your movie, who put a sign up "if you're a dick, you're not a chick" with obvious intention to just piss people off, you loose your thin guise of objectivity.

My issue has to do with the person who posted this trying to pretend they are a libertarian when they are actually just a stand in line and regurgitate our message halfwit of a large voting block of the Republican party. randy is trying to identify as something he is not - which is maybe a touch ironic here.

[DCHawk1]

awesome and appreciated post…all except the bolded part

Fair enough.

I wasn't quite articulate enough in expressing the differences between what is fully reversible and what is not. Poor choice of words (and only tenuous familiarity with the appropriate language) on my part.

[jfish26]

So...this thread AND this movie resonate with me for personal reasons.

As I mentioned on the old board (Vega's board, I think), my oldest daughter had several friends in middle and high school who were "trans." Note that I use the past tense of the verb here. Of her 6 friends who were trans, 5 of them (who are all now legal, drinking-age adults) are happy, out, and proud lesbian women. They know what a woman is, and they are ALL grateful to be women. (The last one now professes not to be trans but nonbinary).

Two of these young women are among my daughter's very closest and best friends, always have been, and always will be. And they laugh and joke now about how "dumb" (their word, not mine) they were when they were kids.

I know that most of you believe firmly and incontrovertibly that the trans-panic is, as James Carville might put it, "boob-bait for Bubbas." But that's not all there is to it. There is a real and genuine effort on the part of certain parts of the educational/therapeutic establishments to advance trans acceptance on the backs of confused adolescents.

I have little doubt that these girls all would have been told at least to consider transitioning socially, if they had been in middle and high school right now, rather than just a few years ago. I also know that it would have been disastrous and destructive for all of them.

I won't pretend that much of the issue on the Right isn't a case of power-seeking disguised as concern and compassion. Much is. But not all of it. And there are reasons why medical and chemical transitioning may be too radical for many/most children.

Some of the most powerful voices on trans issues are gay men and women -- Andrew Sullivan and Glenn Greenwald to name two -- who argue that the full-throated embrace of trans "ideology" has erased much of the progress of the gay rights movement and that it seeks, in fact, to erase gay men and women entirely. The latter is undoubtedly hyperbolic, but the former has some merit.

In any case, I don't believe that this issue is quite as black and white as many might suppose.

I guess what I have a problem with is that this issue as it exists in real life is simply not the same thing at all as this issue as it exists as a political issue.

[DCHawk1]

I guess what I have a problem with is that this issue as it exists in real life is simply not the same thing at all as this issue as it exists as a political issue.

You'll get no argument from me.

The politicization of everything is, IMO, the societal issue that is most relevant long term.

[jfish26]

I guess what I have a problem with is that this issue as it exists in real life is simply not the same thing at all as this issue as it exists as a political issue.

You'll get no argument from me.

The politicization of everything is, IMO, the societal issue that is most relevant long term.

Depends on whether you'd call the environment a "societal issue", but I don't disagree.

The team-sportsification of politics - where everything is win/lose, zero sum, and the notion of a rising tide lifting all boats has been cast aside - has been a huge net negative. I would argue that the primary cause has been fundamental changes in the media landscape (the rise of talk radio, the decline of local media (especially print), etc.), and then Citizens United was gasoline on the fire.

[randylahey]

If you are actually a libertarian as you’ve said in the past then you wouldn’t give a fuck if some boys or men wanted to be and identified as women. And you’d also not give a fuck if some businesses helped those people become women. You’d just want the free market to run its course and the government to stay out of it.

But you aren’t a libertarian at all.
You’re just a brainwashed moran.

I dont give a fuck about individuals choosing to do it.

What I give a fuck about, is why children have been caught in the crossfire of thus movement

Most people didn't really care until all the mainstream propaganda become so prevelant and filtered into the school systems

[pdub]

You don't have kids.
You're never having kids.
You should never have kids.

You can just kinda stay out of the school system thankssomuch.

[KUTradition]

randy doesn’t give a fuck, as exemplified by his dozens of posts in the subject